Hot Toys Star Wars Emperor Palpatine (Deluxe) Review

Stryker2011 wrote:I like that New Hope sculpt better than the current one. How bizarre how close Hamill is to Stan in likeness. I wonder if I shouldn’t try to track down the New Hope figure...

If it is not available or indecently expensive, there is a very close knockoff head (and possibly clothes/accessories set) just like there was for ANH Leia.

Stryker2011 wrote:I always expect a certain amount of drop-off from Prototype to Production (anyone expecting these things to turn out like the ONE head JC Hong paints and shows-off on his FB page is naive -- to put it politely). I PO'd -- for the last time -- the Sideshow Luke, mainly because I thought the sculpt reflected Mark's more beat-up look in Jedi (plus it didn't have that silly, mouth-breather thing going on that HT did), but the massive drop-off from Proto to Production is so staggering as to be outside the realm of acceptable. After how good their Mythos Obi-Wan turned out, it is actually surprising that their Luke figure seems to have taken a 10-year backward leap in production quality. They should really stick to robots and aliens in their sixth scale  lines, as they clearly cannot do likenesses from real people -- or something is going horribly wrong at the factory end, and they are too cheap to hire a Chinese person to do some quality control.

This is probably the only way I'll be able to display Sideshow's Return of the Jedi Luke and get away with saying "See, I have all three of the major characters represented." (Assuming I don't sell it):



How did you manage to find Inigo's Luke, Roger? Did someone post a link over at the Freaks somewhere?

I don't have the head, Inigo posts regularly on FB as does Silentsurfer. I have the original SSC Jedi Luke, in my roof! I quite liked it at the time, not now though!

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In Gubernator's pics I get it about the idealised likeness. It doesn't look quite haggard enough to be Mark as he was then. They also idealised the NT Leia quite a bit in that they took away Carrie's obvious coke nose. Her septum rotted out so they had to sew the tip of her nose down to hide the hole. HT just aged a young Carrie.

It would be interesting to see if you could put Luke hair on an HT Winter Soldier head to see if a better Luke emerges.

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I actually broke down and found a New Hope Luke, not too badly marked up on eBay. I’ll probably keep parts from Sideshow’s ROTJ Luke, and see if I can’t sell off the rest parted out. I’ve heard folks don’t mind the Endor sculpt (since the helmet helps the likeness some), so I’ll probably get rid of that stuff.

Sounds like a plan!

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Rogerbee wrote:In Gubernator's pics I get it about the idealised likeness. It doesn't look quite haggard enough to be Mark as he was then. It would be interesting to see if you could put Luke hair on an HT Winter Soldier head to see if a better Luke emerges.

I don't think the HT ROTJ Luke head sculpt is idealized or "cutsie" at all. Yes, he looked more haggard in some scenes, but not every one. You cannot expect a single head sculpt to capture every single expression an actor had while playing a character in any given film (or even scene)! Nor can you expect that a company will necessarily decide to use the sculpt you would have most liked. The most you could expect is for them to be reasonable and to get it as accurate as possible for the look they chose. In this instance they went for a fairly neutral, somewhat pensive and apprehensive expression. It was appropriate enough for the film and it wasn't some unnecessarily specific (and therefore divisive) overly-animated expression. But I suppose people's priorities, tastes, and perceptions will differ. So anyway, here is Luke's secret son, Seb Skywalker.



No, I wasn't going to uproot the hair and paint over his stubble just to see if it will make a better Luke

Yikes! That's hilarious, Guv.

Here's a good comparison shot of Sideshow's Luke, the "real" Luke, and HT's Luke:

Hmm, in and of itself, the Sideshow Luke looks quite good. But both head sculpts seem to have made the jaws too square. Of course the Luke movie still in question has him looking up and to the side at Jabba, with arched eyebrows. You were probably meant to look at this:

Overall, the SS Luke sculpt seems to suffer from a certain amount of warpage in the casting, and their usual weak paint apps.

I do sometimes think that people have their idea of what the actor looks like in their heads, without them actually studying stills. People still rate the SSC TOD Indy sculpt, I think it's dire! Sometimes it's like HT split the difference and hope for the best, then their loyal followers dutifully do the rest.

When they want to they can produce perfection, their Don Corleone still holds up today. They nail Johnny Depp and Robert Downey Jnr. I guess some of us have a better eye than others for what constitutes a great likeness.

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Rogerbee wrote:I do sometimes think that people have their idea of what the actor looks like in their heads, without them actually studying stills. ... I guess some of us have a better eye than others for what constitutes a great likeness.

In case of doubt, consult Roger.

Rogerbee wrote:
I do sometimes think that people have their idea of what the actor looks like in their heads, without them actually studying stills. People still rate the SSC TOD Indy sculpt, I think it's dire! Sometimes it's like HT split the difference and hope for the best, then their loyal followers dutifully do the rest.

When they want to they can produce perfection, their Don Corleone still holds up today. They nail Johnny Depp and Robert Downey Jnr. I guess some of us have a better eye than others for what constitutes a great likeness.

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I can attest to this, though I understand that people see what they want to see. As a kid who was always in to illustration and art, my focus was primarily on people. Growing up it was my goal to become a comic book writer and illustrator, and I pretty much kept that goal most of my adult life. After my short military run, and in between doing a few dangerous jobs, I even went to two different Art Schools (but ultimately changed my Major to English). In that time, my skill as an illustrator, was constantly practiced and honed. My point is not to brag about how great I am at drawing people, but that it takes a great deal of work to be able to analyze and pick apart the tiniest of details, develop a close relation of eye/hand coordination, and be able to isolate tiny sections of an individual’s face like a puzzle, focus on each piece, the negative space (ie, the overall shape of a thing, or the shape around the thing rather than the thing itself), and to be able to recreate that thing in 2D. Art is a skill, like any skill, that requires years, decades, of never-ending practice (something that I have sadly not done in a very long time), but what was learned through decades of ocular analysis can never be undone (unless one goes blind, of course). Most folks who are excellent at recreating a person’s likeness have an uncanny knack of finding the imperfections in a person’s face (and most people have them) than what makes someone attractive.

I brought up Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and old Alec Guinness before, because those guys never seem to get done right. Ford was a ruggedly handsome guy when he was younger, but far from perfect (hence “rugged” — he has a slightly crooked nose and mouth, and a scar on his chin; his features are not symmetrical — and the overall shape of his face changed from softer, rounder in SW to more chiseled by Empire). Though HT often get the scar, they make his features too symmetrical. They did pretty much the same thing to Hamill with their ROTJ sculpt. Hamill’s face was more symmetrical when he was in Star Wars, but it was far from it by the time of Jedi.

Ever notice why models (particularly Super Models) are considered Beautiful or Gorgeous...? And why it is often hard for less-skilled people to capture their likeness completely...? It’s because they have nearly perfect symmetrical faces, yet there is still something (there always is) that is just a little different from one side of the face to the other. An interesting technique I learned in school was to cover up one side of a person’s face that is looking straight ahead in a photograph, place a sheet of tracing paper over it and trace over all the details of the exposed side (making sure to lightly trace the line of the paper covering the other side). When finished, remove the covering paper and fold the tracing paper in half along the line running down the middle, then retrace the features that were previously drawn. When you unfold the tracing paper and place it onto a white sheet of paper you will have a complete face — but it won’t look much like the person it is supposed to be. This is what is wrong with HT’s Jedi Hamill — (it is also why the majority of their female sculpts never quite look like the person they are supposed to); it’s as if they looked at one side of the face where he wasn’t as badly damaged, and then flipped it for the other side (after all, he’s the hero — he SHOULD be good looking, or at least cute — like he was in New Hope — but he wasn’t all that cute by Jedi; I remember as a kid how jarring of a difference there was even from SW to Empire — by the time of Jedi, I thought maybe he’d been in another car accident).

Try that technique on a photograph of yourself and you’ll see what I mean. I actually thought the prototype of Hamill that SS made, while still not a perfect likeness, was a lot closer than HT’s prototype. Sadly, production, as is nearly always the case with SS, killed most of what was close. HT’s drop off in production is considerably less in most cases (though their Black Panther 2.0 Bozeman was fairly bad from proto to final), but it’s very, very idealized; it’s the old, the mind not believing what the eyes are telling it sort of thing.

If anyone made it through all of that, congratulations!

Well put and I do agree,

I have a pretty damn good facial recognition system in my head. I can even recognise people that I haven't seen for more than 30 years. People retain an essence of what they were like when they were young right through their lives and I seem to be able to pick up on that. There were a few people at my school reunion that I picked out that nobody could guess.

I can spot a great likeness a mile off as much as I can a bad one. Even though SSC made it a bit too large, the best sculpt of Indy, and indeed Ford, is Trevor Grove's. He absolutely nails Ford, even on a NECA figure!



That's a 7" figure by the way.

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Great Review GubernatorFan,  And perhaps the first 1/6 figure to tempt me for a while, but alas not enough to buy it.

It is great to see a figure with a good number of extra parts, albeit at a Deluxe edition premium.  I think the overall look is great and the choice of head sculpt expression probably gives the widest choice of looks/poses without the need for an extra/second head.

The choice of materials is good and the lights on the throne are very effective.  Is the seat padding moulded in? It would have been nice at this price point if HT could have provided a genuinely padded seat of some kind rather than hard plastic.

In the UK this retails at £320 + P&P.  I have to say this is more reasonable than most given what is included, but still very much substantially over priced in my eyes, and thats the main reason I won't buy one.  Its not that I don't want one, or that I could not afford it, but at the end of the day I don't think the price is at all reasonable or fair given the nature of the product, and I don't need it in my life enough to drop that sort of money on it.  To put this statement into some sort of perspective In terms of what I will spend on things, I did just spend in excess of £1000 on a Tomenosuke Blade Runner Rick Deckard blaster prop replica because I have coveted it for a long time and in the end I had to have one, so I will spend when I think the expense is justified.  This is a little different in some respects as Tomenosuke only make this blaster (and variants of it in terms of colouring etc...), so I am pretty well assured that this expensive toy will be a one off purchase, unlike products from HT who will just keep churning these things out in different forms for as long as they can hoping I will buy them all!!!

The Kotobukiya 1/10 emperor retails here for £125 +P&P, and yes its smaller and static and doesn't have the extras or features but does all that warrant the HT being well over twice the price.  
The new Hasbro Black series 8" Darth Vader is on pre order here at £70 and thats a figure with a metal armature as well as superb quality soft goods and accessories and extras!!!  So why is the average price of a plastic bodied HT/Sideshow 1/6 Star Wars figure almost 4 times this cost?????
If others can produce these items at less expense to the consumer then HT could too but they continue to choose to inflate their prices above the cost of similar items largely because they have worked out that many of us will continue to pay regardless.  Interesting too that none of this appears to be connected to Disney licensing costs as all these firms are subject to the licensing, so HT/SideShow are simply just charging more for their products.  
The basic costs of the figure is no where near what we are being asked to pay for these things.  There are many exceptional military figures around today which come with tray after tray of superb add on parts and extras which retail for around £150 or sometimes even less.  Some even have character head sculpts depicting real people to.  So if these companies can produce a high quality figure with lots of accessories for substantially less and still make a profit, then what should this be telling us about HT/SideShow pricing??  I would expect the Disney/Star Wars licensing to increase this price point for franchise figures, but not by £100 more!!!!

At what price point would you say a 1/6 scale figure is over priced to the point that you would not buy it??  £400, £500, £700, £1000????  I have reached that point myself already with HT/SideShow and their current pricing, and that is a large part of why I contribute here less now.  I seem to say this with every HT Sideshow Star Wars release now and quite frankly my interest in 1/6 is disappearing rapidly as a result. I refuse to pay the ridiculously inflated prices HT/Sideshow now charge, no matter how much I want the figure, and I can enjoy Star Wars collecting in other areas and scales for a way more reasonable and realistic cost!!  Hell a lot of my 1-1 stuff does not even cost as much as HT figures do

I am afraid that as much as I love Star Wars, HT will have to review their pricing policy before I will go any where near buying another of their figures and until that happens i will have very little interest in what they are producing.  They are just too damed expensive for what they are, and all the time we as collectors keep buying them at seriously inflated prices the costs will just continue to rise for us.

Paul

LOL, he WAS in a car accident, 80mph on the 14 trying to make an exit he missed (prob. faster) ... Wait , you knew that and I missed the clue, didn't I? Damn...

I just wanted to say the Emporer's smile has ceased to look evil upon my latest viewing, and now he just seems like a sweet old man

Thank you, Paul, for your detailed and thoughtful response. Glad you liked the review.

I agree with you that at this price point, real cushions on the seat might have been a reasonable extra step -- although I am not sure whether it would have made enough of a difference for most collectors.

These UK prices seem to go from very bad to utterly atrocious. And I thought the pound was worth more than the dollar! I certainly can't fault you for finding this (and other recent HT and Sideshow offers) prohibitively expensive. I do too, although occasionally I still go for one, as in this case -- and the cost was less. My comments on the cost in the review were relative to that of other offers from Star Wars licensed sixth-scale figures, and you seem to agree as far as this company is concerned. I appreciate the added perspective which you have brought up with your discussion of the costs. I do not know if the SW license from Disney skyrockets in price for high-end collectibles, or whether it is just the companies being calculating and avaricious; there is, of course, the rising cost in labor at play, but I doubt it is nearly that steep. I also wonder when the cost benefit will catch up with this price inflation and will (hopefully) cause it to drop.

GubernatorFan wrote:Thank you, Paul, for your detailed and thoughtful response. Glad you liked the review.

I agree with you that at this price point, real cushions on the seat might have been a reasonable extra step -- although I am not sure whether it would have made enough of a difference for most collectors.

These UK prices seem to go from very bad to utterly atrocious. And I thought the pound was worth more than the dollar! I certainly can't fault you for finding this (and other recent HT and Sideshow offers) prohibitively expensive. I do too, although occasionally I still go for one, as in this case -- and the cost was less. My comments on the cost in the review were relative to that of other offers from Star Wars licensed sixth-scale figures, and you seem to agree as far as this company is concerned. I appreciate the added perspective which you have brought up with your discussion of the costs. I do not know if the SW license from Disney skyrockets in price for high-end collectibles, or whether it is just the companies being calculating and avaricious; there is, of course, the rising cost in labor at play, but I doubt it is nearly that steep. I also wonder when the cost benefit will catch up with this price inflation and will (hopefully) cause it to drop.

I feel that as this is sold as a high end collectable things like a padded seat on a throne rather than a moulded in section should have been a given. A moulded in seat cushion doesn't seem very high end to me, but it is cheaper to produce I guess, which for me once again shows where the companies real concerns lay.

And well yes, that's living in the UK for you.  The pound is worth more than the dollar (at the moment around $1.30 to £1) but it seems that for most items we pay the same in pounds as you do in Dollars, so roughly around 25% more I would say.  So the retail cost of this figure here in the UK would equate to about $415 + P&P.

I could easily pay the asking price for the HT/Sideshow stuff, but I won't as they are clearly higher priced than other high end licensed Star Wars items, and way way more expensive than other high end toys or collectables in general.

I believe the Disney licensing is pretty much standard across the board and includes an up front fee and a % of takings usually.  I have chatted to a couple of costume makers here in the UK who have considered/investigated licensing their products through Disney due to the volume they now make, and my understanding is the licenses are negotiated individually but never stray far from the basic formula and fees Disney demand, so there would be no additional cost on the licensing specifically for high end items as to all intents and purposes the licensing fees are all roughly the same whatever you are selling.  Labour costs are pretty much the same for anyone making these things I suspect.
So to my mind the price difference is definitely down to the companies being calculating and avaricious as you put it.

I very much doubt that we will see any reduction in price on these items now.  If for whatever reason the production costs come down the companies will just take more profit.  In fact I suspect that the prices will continue to rise, blamed on things like labour costs, material prices, licensing etc...  But actually it's all about the companies maintaining or improving high profit margins.

It would be really interesting at some point to see an independent report on what it costs HT/SideShow to develop, make and ship a figure as a per unit cost.  I suspect we would all be shocked to see what that cost actually is.

Paul

In the store I bought my Gremlins from, the average price for an MMS is £350 and it could be £400 upwards for a DX or something with the accessories this has.

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Sorry you've lost me there Rogerbee. What are MMS and DX?

Thanks

Paul

MMS and DX are the codes Hot Toys uses as a prefex before the product number. MMS are the standard boxed figures, and DX (like the DX Jack Sparrow) are the ones that come with extras -- like two heads. Really, it's just another cash grab by Howard Chan. Ever notice all those fancy displays they have at the conventions (like the full 1/6 scale model of the Millenium Falcon)? While all that stuff is cool and it gets the viewers attention, imagine how much less we could possibly pay for these things if they stopped wasting time and money on something just to show off at a booth (never to be sold), that ultimately ends up in Howard's personal warehouse of treasures we'll likely never see again (like the '66 Batmobile), when a nice banner would work just as well in my opinion.

Yes, more specifically MMS = Movie Masterpiece Series, which is the standard series for characters from films. DX = Deluxe, for the same thing (also MMS) but with the added items. They give them different numbers. For example, the HT emperor without the throne and other extras is MMS467; this one, the deluxe (DX), is MMS468. The price difference between regular and deluxe sets has varied from time to time and place to place; this is on the higher side. Some products have only been released as deluxe sets (like the HT Indiana Jones, for example), and many as a single, basic (or not so basic) set.

What they said, LOL!

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For anyone who has this with the throne, Matrix69 (Freaks member), did a great mod to the throne so that his feet can touch the ground.

His words: "For those interested in lowering the chair...if you drill up through the circular slot at the base of the seat...it can be lowered by a 1/4 inch.

Using a flat headed screwdriver i first prized opened the bottom part of the chair where the battery compartment is. I did this as i didn't want to run the risk of damaging the wires inside...as you can see there's lots of them!

I guess an easier way would be to just cut back the base pole plug thingy...

Anyways i'm pretty happy with the results and now old Palps can sit with his wee feet touching the floor and no need for leg extenders"

(He used a 35mm Forster Bit, here's an example of what a Forster Bit looks like):



And here's his WIP pics and final result:







Anyone brave enough to try this modification...? (I might give it a go myself)

Interesting fix -- seems to work very well. If I tried this, it would be what he suggests as an easier way to accomplish this, by cutting down the "base pole plug thingy." I would recommend you do the same if you give this a go -- probably both easier and safer.

By the way, is it just me, or did he also give the poor old rogue a black eye?

I know quite a few people painted the eyes a bit, and added more red around the eyes and mouth to get it closer to screen accurate. Some of the adjustments I've seen have been crazy good -- I don't think I'd have the guts to try that, myself.

It makes sense, but like you I'm a little too timid to give it a try... for now. If I had picked up an extra head (there's an idea...), maybe.

He does look slightly better, but, to me, he still slouches far too much. In stills I've seen from the movie, his feet do touch the ground, but, he also sits more upright than the figure can. Modding the seat so he can sit further back would fix it, but, I don't think it can be done.

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Rogerbee wrote:He does look slightly better, but, to me, he still slouches far too much. In stills I've seen from the movie, his feet do touch the ground, but, he also sits more upright than the figure can. Modding the seat so he can sit further back would fix it, but, I don't think it can be done.

Can't agree with you there -- he leans back into the throne. We've been over this; go back and look at the photos from the film already uploaded in earlier posts in the thread.

I did, and, his head is much nearer the top of the throne in movie stills. It was people replicating that which led to the dangling feet issue. There's a combination of the figure and the throne at work here and I think putting the figure on a body with longer legs and fixing the throne would be the most complete fix. Here's the still from your own post:



You can see where his head needs to be there.

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