lets be a bit philosophical, shall we?

I started making my own stuff because I'm cheap! It costs less to make one than to buy a commercial version. I don't even like buying materials; I'll try to scavenge everything for free. My main ongoing expenses are glue and paint. It's actually a pretty inexpensive hobby if you stay away from buying boxed figures.

shazzdan wrote:I started making my own stuff because I'm cheap! It costs less to make one than to buy a commercial version. I don't even like buying materials; I'll try to scavenge everything for free. My main ongoing expenses are glue and paint. It's actually a pretty inexpensive hobby if you stay away from buying boxed figures.

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

skywalkersaga wrote:

And Roger, it's great that you're willing to devote such time to 'garage kits'. It must indeed be satisfying to have  something like that that you painted entirely yourself. Just to clarify though, by that term, do you mean the statues that you purchase in pieces, and then paint and put together? Or are there 'garage kit' versions of 1/6 action figures as well? Because while statue-painting is a very admirable skill, I don't think one can completely equate it with kitbashing or customizing action figures, as there are often different materials and skill sets involved....and vice versa.

Garage kits are either vinyl or resin, the majority of the earliest and best are of licensed subjects. Did you know, for example, that SSC started off making garage kits before they branched out into figures? Billiken could well be considered the Enterbay of their field and Horizon the HT. A lot of others were more limited run and weren't licensed and it's pretty much this section of the market that continues to this day. Because of the assembly and paint required I don't think you can truly call them statues, even though the end product is largely similar. A lot of the paint skills are transferrable, indeed it's techniques from Darren Carnall, who repaints 1/6 heads, that I intend to use on my kits. I found it all very enjoyable when I did it in the 90's and I don't doubt I still will.

Rogerbee wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:

And Roger, it's great that you're willing to devote such time to 'garage kits'. It must indeed be satisfying to have  something like that that you painted entirely yourself. Just to clarify though, by that term, do you mean the statues that you purchase in pieces, and then paint and put together? Or are there 'garage kit' versions of 1/6 action figures as well? Because while statue-painting is a very admirable skill, I don't think one can completely equate it with kitbashing or customizing action figures, as there are often different materials and skill sets involved....and vice versa.

Garage kits are either vinyl or resin, the majority of the earliest and best are of licensed subjects. Did you know, for example, that SSC started off making garage kits before they branched out into figures? Billiken could well be considered the Enterbay of their field and Horizon the HT. A lot of others were more limited run and weren't licensed and it's pretty much this section of the market that continues to this day. Because of the assembly and paint required I don't think you can truly call them statues, even though the end product is largely similar. A lot of the paint skills are transferrable, indeed it's techniques from Darren Carnall, who repaints 1/6 heads, that I intend to use on my kits. I found it all very enjoyable when I did it in the 90's and I don't doubt I still will.

Thanks for explaining! I wasn't aware of the particulars of the garage kit history, but I appreciate the info. And apologies if I was mistaken in calling them 'statues' -- what term do you prefer? Just 'figures'? And yes, of course, the painting skills are most certainly an area of overlap -- when I referred to the differences, I meant mostly in regard to the fact that action figures tend to require clothing and accessories to be complete, whereas I am guessing all of that is usually sculpted in a garage kit? Again, I was certainly not implying one hobby was better than the other,  but just saying that from my very inexperienced perspective, it didn't seem that they were 100% comparable. 

And I love watching Darren Carnall's painting videos! 

Stryker2011 wrote:Skywalkersaga— You should NEVER feel that you need to do it all. Customizing and kitbashing doesn’t mean you have to do it all. There are very few people who have the skills (or the time) to do it all. Hiring someone to do custom work isn’t a cheat or a dishonor to your vision. I’ve sewn some things myself, but I do it by hand and it’s too tedious for me to do complex articles of clothing, so I’ve hired Amy Jones a few times to do things for me, based on my vision, and despite the final work being hers — I’m still proud of it. I’ve had head sculpts commissioned, and put my input into all stages of the process, and though the final work isn’t mine per se, it still has my mark on it.I know you may not see it as such, but creating characters and figures in this hobby isn’t a competition. Shazzdan likes to make his own stuff, and he has the skill to do it. I’ll make things when it’s necessary, but if I can purchase something pre-made that saves me a $#&tload of time and effort — I’d much rather do that, as I’m ultimately very lazy. Doesn’t make my appreciation for what others can do, and what I’ve done, any less. Enjoying the hobby, in whatever way you can, is ultimately the only point. It’s not supposed to be a chore. I’ve never made a diorama before the mighty Jabba, and while it’s been somewhat frustrating at times as I’ve run into errors due to my own lack of experience, it’s ultimately been a lot of fun, and very educational — and I’ve enjoyed it far more than it frustrated me.

Thank you for the words of wisdom, Stryker. And you are right, it's NOT a competition, and I certainly don't view it that way myself, though I suppose it is nonetheless easy to start to feel inadequate, and compare oneself to others in an overly self-critical manner, even if not doing so with a competitive spirit, if that makes sense. But, like with any art or hobby, the best way to approach things is to focus on what you're doing, and do it to the best of your ability, and not get bogged down in what others are doing. Easier said than done sometimes, but I can try. 

I also feel you completely on the 'customizing out of sheer necessity' side of things. While there are some areas of customization that I enjoy and find soothing [for instance, I really do like making and painting little accessories and stuff like that], there are other aspects that I find tedious and daunting, and which I tend to put off as long as possible until I've explored all other options and found nothing else already existing out there. 

But yeah... the minute something starts to feel like a competition is the moment I am 'out'. I simply cannot handle that kind of pressure. I have noticed that for some collectors [not the ones on this forum], it does seem to be a competition of who can make/buy/commission/acquire the 'best' figure, and while in one sense it's great to push the hobby to new levels, I personally can't participate in that kind of mentality. Especially since these things are so subjective. Just as an example, right now the trend is for hyper-realistic figures, so that is what many people deem to be 'the best', but that is not necessarily what everyone who is participating in the hobby is trying to achieve. 

Ultimately, all I want are figures that I like and that fit my personal preferences and tastes and go along with the focus of my collection, and some of those might be purchased boxed figures, some of them might be kitbashes, some might be partially or entirely commissioned pieces, and some might be my own creations. Or a blend of all of the above. 

I think when people are in this for 'bragging rights', then being or having 'the best' becomes more of an extreme focus. But those of us who are in this for maximum personal enjoyment, then all that matters is that our figures make us happy. 


ETA: Meant to add that I'm so glad you decided to share your Jabba dio-making journey with us, it's been incredibly inspirational and educational from the viewer's perspective, as well. :')

Skywalkersaga,

There are some people in just about any form of modeling you care to name that are driven by competition and the need to prove they are the best, which when it comes to art, which this is, is purely subjective. The overwhelming majority of modelers however, do it just because they enjoy the process of building, take pride in the finished product and enjoy the result afterwards, which might be sticking the figure on display for others to admire or in my case, shooting photos with it. I could care less about competitions myself; I'm not in it for that. like a lot of people however, I enjoy sharing my work among other aficionados of the hobby, reading their opinions and feedback and doing the same for their work when they post it. I get more satisfaction out of that than I could possibly get out of winning some sort of competition. Don't get me wrong...the stuff cranked out by competition level modelers is awesome in some ways, particularly painting and weathering, though not in my opinion all that original in concept. This being said, I'm in it to enjoy myself, and so far I am. Nothing in my collection would win any kind of competition, but then again, why would I care?

interesting idea about competition and "incentives" . i chose 1/6 figures as a means to make my virtual hobby come to life. my very first figure was a 1/6 dragon german machine gunner(the name eludes me right now) but it was meant as a battlefield 1942 mascot when out on lan parties well, competing. even thought about case modding him into my pc but once i held the figure in hands i couldn't bring myself cutting him apart (was supposed to look like a tank hatch on top of my pc case). instead i thought about giving him a proper backdrop in my shelf, sandbags, barbed wire obstacles and all.

over the years i found some kind of relaxation when working on my figures / dioramas, something that wasn't tied to achieving a particular goal or placing 1st in a tournament rather than putting my mind at ease, kinda focusing without a definite goal in mind. similar to an open road with lots possible outcomes.

in everyday life, most results are forced upon you for the money's sake. then there's results that you put upon yourself, been there done that. for 2 years i trained, ate and slept on point to reach the goal of how i wanted my body to look. made the gym my second home and was honestly amazed that by the time people came to me for training routine questions or nutrition. up until 27 years of age my buddy kept saying i had to enter the door twice to be seen so bulking up as much as i could was kind of a big deal to me.
yet no matter how much gains i put on, i wasn't satisfied even after having the obligatory "cycle". i felt great, was in the best shape of my life and still sad i was never getting the proportions of the "real guys" you see at the mr. olympia.
but somewhere along the way it "clicked", that in order to grow i had to mix various "supplements" and would soon hit unhealthy levels and still not be anywhere near the big guys, so i quit fighting with myself.
i still hit the gym, still admire the 250+pounds around but i came to enjoy my results as my own and try to build the best "me" instead of chasing an unreachable phantom.

so personally 1/6 isn't so much of a competition for me rather than an incentive and inspiration. i love seen stuff done i wasn't even thinking about myself even if i can't reproduce the result 1:1 due to lack of skills and/or patience. but it broadens my field of view and makes my arsenal bigger next time i try something new.

right now my first and foremost pastime is gaming and let me tell you, being toxic at any possible confrontation is the norm not the exception for your every move is recorded as statistics. how many kills per deathm points per minute and so and so forth. it keeps you on your toes but burns you out just the same for you don't want to be on the lower end of the score list.
so basically my best from today has to be the norm for tomorrow. only at some point you can't improve any further linearly and that's where frustration hits you, thus the toxicity.

so all i'm saying is i'm thankful having found a hobby where the results only ever matter to me and every external influence is an inspiration rather than a challenge to the death

cheers and thanks for the food for thought

Stryker2011 wrote:

shazzdan wrote:I started making my own stuff because I'm cheap! It costs less to make one than to buy a commercial version. I don't even like buying materials; I'll try to scavenge everything for free. My main ongoing expenses are glue and paint. It's actually a pretty inexpensive hobby if you stay away from buying boxed figures.

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

All inventors are lazy at heart. The underlying desire is to create a device that can help them do less work.

shazzdan wrote:All inventors are lazy at heart. The underlying desire is to create a device that can help them do less work.

Didn't someone (other than me) say that laziness is the mother of invention? Well, if they didn't, they should have.

Tjolnir wrote:yet no matter how much gains i put on, i wasn't satisfied even after having the obligatory "cycle". i felt great, was in the best shape of my life and still sad i was never getting the proportions of the "real guys" you see at the mr. olympia.
but somewhere along the way it "clicked", that in order to grow i had to mix various "supplements" and would soon hit unhealthy levels and still not be anywhere near the big guys, so i quit fighting with myself.

You have to go right back to the early 1950s to see what a professional body builder physique looks like without steroid augmentation. The Soviets had a deliberate policy of steroid injections for all their athletes since the 1940s. It is physiologically impossible to get the kind of physiques we see today without steroids and other supplements. Anyone in the sport who claims to have never taken steroids is blatantly lying because they have been endemic since the 60s. Here are the 1953 Mr. Universe finalists.



Look carefully and you'll see a young Sean Connery in the middle.

shazzdan wrote:

Tjolnir wrote:yet no matter how much gains i put on, i wasn't satisfied even after having the obligatory "cycle". i felt great, was in the best shape of my life and still sad i was never getting the proportions of the "real guys" you see at the mr. olympia.
but somewhere along the way it "clicked", that in order to grow i had to mix various "supplements" and would soon hit unhealthy levels and still not be anywhere near the big guys, so i quit fighting with myself.

You have to go right back to the early 1950s to see what a professional body builder physique looks like without steroid augmentation. The Soviets had a deliberate policy of steroid injections for all their athletes since the 1940s. It is physiologically impossible to get the kind of physiques we see today without steroids and other supplements. Anyone in the sport who claims that they have never taken steroids is blatantly lying because they have been endemic since the 60s. Here are the 1953 Mr. Universe finalists.



Look carefully and you'll see a young Sean Connery in the middle.

Ironic isn't it, that in those days, he had his real hair on his head but had to shave the hair off his chest, whereas by the time of the James Bond films, he could show off all the chest hair he wanted, but had to wear a hair piece because he was already balding rapidly.

Ok... that is the first and only time I have ever found Sean Connery remotely attractive.

skywalkersaga wrote:Ok... that is the first and only time I have ever found Sean Connery remotely attractive.

Now you see why he was selected to play Bond. He was only a passable actor and he could barely speak English. He was chosen purely for his looks.

skywalkersaga wrote:Ok... that is the first and only time I have ever found Sean Connery remotely attractive.

Odd, given how many years running he was voted sexiest man alive when already in his sixties.

Some things are inexplicable... ;p

shazzdan wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:Ok... that is the first and only time I have ever found Sean Connery remotely attractive.

Now you see why he was selected to play Bond. He was only a passable actor and he could barely speak English. He was chosen purely for his looks.

And yet Ian Fleming was so impressed with Connery in the role of Bond that he re-wrote the character in his later novels to make him half Scottish, half Swiss.

ThePhotogsBlog wrote:

shazzdan wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:Ok... that is the first and only time I have ever found Sean Connery remotely attractive.

Now you see why he was selected to play Bond. He was only a passable actor and he could barely speak English. He was chosen purely for his looks.

And yet Ian Fleming was so impressed with Connery in the role of Bond that he re-wrote the character in his later novels to make him half Scottish, half Swiss.  

Only after Connery received intensive lessons in elocution, deportment, and acting. Fleming initially thought he was an uncouth brute entirely unsuited for the role.

shazzdan wrote:

ThePhotogsBlog wrote:

shazzdan wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:Ok... that is the first and only time I have ever found Sean Connery remotely attractive.

Now you see why he was selected to play Bond. He was only a passable actor and he could barely speak English. He was chosen purely for his looks.

And yet Ian Fleming was so impressed with Connery in the role of Bond that he re-wrote the character in his later novels to make him half Scottish, half Swiss.  

Only after Connery received intensive lessons in elocution, deportment, and acting. Fleming initially thought he was an uncouth brute entirely unsuited for the role.

Interesting.  I did not know that. Still, whoever taught him must have done a good job as Connery as Bond is #3 on the American Film Institute list of movie heroes, behind Harrison Ford / Indiana Jones (#2) and Gregory Peck / Atticus Finch (#1)

skywalkersaga wrote:

Thanks for explaining! I wasn't aware of the particulars of the garage kit history, but I appreciate the info. And apologies if I was mistaken in calling them 'statues' -- what term do you prefer? Just 'figures'? And yes, of course, the painting skills are most certainly an area of overlap -- when I referred to the differences, I meant mostly in regard to the fact that action figures tend to require clothing and accessories to be complete, whereas I am guessing all of that is usually sculpted in a garage kit? Again, I was certainly not implying one hobby was better than the other,  but just saying that from my very inexperienced perspective, it didn't seem that they were 100% comparable. 

And I love watching Darren Carnall's painting videos! 

We still call them kits. Incidentally Darren did actually do a series of videos in which he built and painted a garage kit of Clint Eastwood. This was right up my alley! He showed the amount of detail you can add to a kit simply by painting it the right way. The end result was pretty spectacular:









Believe it or not, that holster is not real leather, but, it was painted to look like it. What you get out of a garage kit is often determined by what you put into it, and as you can see, if you want it to be, that can be a LOT!

ThePhotogsBlog wrote:

He looks a bit like my Dad in that second pic!

don't get me wrong, "supplements" was just an euphemism for stuff like winstrol, dianabol, sustanol and such. its a long list and with the dosages required in a professional regime, quite an unhealthy one. arguably andreas muenzer was the most shredded competitor yet he died with 36 years of age. his autopsy showed his liver to be half cancerous and half styrofoam like.
mike matarazzo died with i think some 40 years, was known for some of the if not the best calves on stage.
and ronnie coleman sits partially in a wheelchair, the other time he needs some walking support. cheerful as always and very likable, his only regrets was not doing 4 reps with 800 pound squats

it might sound weird but i'm fine with steroids being used to push beyond the physically possible, part of that belief is that every adult should do whatever he wants with his body, as long as he's aware of the consequences. and those consequences were what kept me from going on a second cycle for i had to up the dosage for the body to respond in the same fashion.
so you might say i quite enjoy today's physique in the olympia minus the bubble gut, which is a byproduct of growth hormones, basically "everything" well, grows.
and in my book markus ruehl definitely deserved the title at least once in his career.


coleman on the left, ruehl on the right(theyear this picture was taken, his form was clearly better than ruehls i must admit)

i wish phicen would bring out a body to match these guys, even the m35 would look skinny in comparison

so yeah comparing the guys from the "silver" age of bodybuilding with the golden like arnold, ferrigno and oliva shows just the huge gap as when dorian yates hit the stage and dominated everyone with sheer mass.
accordingly you can see the progress of substances with dianabol being available i think in the late 50s early 60s, testosterone anyway being synthesized in ww2 and later the stuff that gave us kai greene and phil heath.

for those interested, leroy colbert(sadly deceased, died a few years ago) had a wonderful youtube channel with a lot of insights and valuable tips, which is still active by the way.
he stemmed from the age of bodybuilding where very few stuff was around and had some of the best arms of the time.

one might not like the look of today's pro athletes, personally though i prefer the mass monsters.
cheers

oh by the way, thats some awesome eastwood, the level of detail is amazing.

Thank you for sharing that, Roger! It’s absolutely gorgeous, though I would expect no less from Mr. Carnall. And thanks also for the clarification — ‘kits’ it is, then.

Rogerbee wrote:We still call them kits. Incidentally Darren did actually do a series of videos in which he built and painted a garage kit of Clint Eastwood. This was right up my alley! He showed the amount of detail you can add to a kit simply by painting it the right way. The end result was pretty spectacular

That's a gorgeous paintjob. I could paint a little when I was younger but wouldn't even attempt it these days. My hands shake and my eyes aren't sharp enough to deal with the finer details.

Tjolnir wrote:don't get me wrong, "supplements" was just an euphemism for stuff like winstrol, dianabol, sustanol and such. its a long list and with the dosages required in a professional regime, quite an unhealthy one. arguably andreas muenzer was the most shredded competitor yet he died with 36 years of age. his autopsy showed his liver to be half cancerous and half styrofoam like.
mike matarazzo died with i think some 40 years, was known for some of the if not the best calves on stage.
and ronnie coleman sits partially in a wheelchair, the other time he needs some walking support. cheerful as always and very likable, his only regrets was not doing 4 reps with 800 pound squats

it might sound weird but i'm fine with steroids being used to push beyond the physically possible, part of that belief is that every adult should do whatever he wants with his body, as long as he's aware of the consequences. and those consequences were what kept me from going on a second cycle for i had to up the dosage for the body to respond in the same fashion.
so you might say i quite enjoy today's physique in the olympia minus the bubble gut, which is a byproduct of growth hormones, basically "everything" well, grows.
and in my book markus ruehl definitely deserved the title at least once in his career.


coleman on the left, ruehl on the right(theyear this picture was taken, his form was clearly better than ruehls i must admit)

i wish phicen would bring out a body to match these guys, even the m35 would look skinny in comparison

so yeah comparing the guys from the "silver" age of bodybuilding with the golden like arnold, ferrigno and oliva shows just the huge gap as when dorian yates hit the stage and dominated everyone with sheer mass.
accordingly you can see the progress of substances with dianabol being available i think in the late 50s early 60s, testosterone anyway being synthesized in ww2 and later the stuff that gave us kai greene and phil heath.

for those interested, leroy colbert(sadly deceased, died a few years ago) had a wonderful youtube channel with a lot of insights and valuable tips, which is still active by the way.
he stemmed from the age of bodybuilding where very few stuff was around and had some of the best arms of the time.

one might not like the look of today's pro athletes, personally though i prefer the mass monsters.
cheers

oh by the way, thats some awesome eastwood, the level of detail is amazing.

Those guys are crazy!

I guess, with the amount of money they make, they can afford to get their clothes custom made. Their necks alone look thicker than both my thighs put together.

skywalkersaga wrote:Thank you for sharing that, Roger! It’s absolutely gorgeous,  though I would expect no less from Mr. Carnall. And thanks also for the clarification — ‘kits’ it is, then.

Yeah, I doubt I'll be as good as him when I get going again, but, I'll give it my best shot. This Regan was the last thing I finished I think:

shazzdan wrote:

That's a gorgeous paintjob. I could paint a little when I was younger but wouldn't even attempt it these days. My hands shake and my eyes aren't sharp enough to deal with the finer details.

I hear you, I haven't tackled anything since I've needed to wear glasses, so, I'll see how I go....

The Eastwood kit is amazing, and great job on the Regan.

As for the body types, it would be beneficial if TBLeague does offer more types, colors, and sizes/heights. Personally, I'd rather see more average and more "silver age" offerings, as I think they will be applicable to a much larger set of purposes and historical eras.

GubernatorFan wrote:The Eastwood kit is amazing, and great job on the Regan.

As for the body types, it would be beneficial if TBLeague does offer more types, colors, and sizes/heights. Personally, I'd rather see more average and more "silver age" offerings, as I think they will be applicable to a much larger set of purposes and historical eras.

Totally agree.  TBLeague would do well to put out more average type male bodies.

GubernatorFan wrote:The Eastwood kit is amazing, and great job on the Regan.

Thanks, just hope I still know what to do.....

Stunning work, Roger!!

And yeah, I’m with you guys on the more ‘average’ male body types, as it would be nice to match some of the recent female bodies in that regard. I’d also like to see more ‘regular’ muscular ones of different shapes, sizes, and heights. There’s the M32, but even that one isn’t always quite what I’m looking for. And no offence to the rest of the existing muscular tbleague bodies, but I’m not super keen on how ‘compact’ they are in the arms and torso , as it gives them too much of that artificial body-builder look. Top of my personal wish list for male seamless body would be a tall, broad-shouldered, muscular-but-still-lanky/long-limbed one! And no, not the crazy-tall basketball player they already did. That one’s arms are too skinny, imo. The closest I can think of to compare what I’m talking about to someone in RL is Joel Kinnaman.... *heart eyes*