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ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version)

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1addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:17 pm

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Addwwb10

Introduction

Logan/Wolverine is a favorite comic book superhero, and very much at the heart of the recent X-Men movie franchise. I should state out front that I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert on any of the relevant source material, although I have seen all the movies with Wolverine played by Hugh Jackman. At any rate, this character has been a favorite for various sixth-scale iterations in both licensed and unlicensed versions. I like Logan and the franchise well enough, without specifically being a huge fan, so I was not exactly overly eager for yet another sixth-scale iteration. But this one did offer something innovative in more ways than one: a seamless Logan, and more importantly (since we can all stick one of the Logan head sculpts on a TBLeague body) a hairy Logan. The body alone was worth checking out, but the product is actually pretty full of promise. It comes with a reasonably large set of accessories and two interchangeable heads; there is also a clothed version with a more conventional hard-plastic exposed-joints body. There is a lot they did very well, and a lot that is still wanting... as you can see below. For those that were hoping otherwise, the body is not a TBLeague one or, I think, a Jiaou one.

Disclaimer -- for reasons that will become apparent later, I did stick another head on the body at one point, and some of the photos (in the articulation section) are with that head sculpt; it happened to be a Tom Cruise head, so just pretend it is a perfect color match and that Tom Cruise's real body is not actually the smoothest, most hairless naturally-occurring mammalian surface found on the planet (except of course in Tropic Thunder).

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Packaging - 4/4 stars
The set comes in a pretty standard-sized box with white surface color and some fairly abstract graphics, including what looks like a heavily posterized photo of one of the head sculpts. The box is held closed with magnets on the right side, lift that up and then open it like a book. Inside, below a thin layer of black foam, are located two black foam treys, holding the action figure and its accessories. Everything is snug enough, safe, and collector friendly. I don't expect much from packaging (ever), but I do like it.

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Sculpting/Molding - 3.5/4 stars
This category covers a lot, since there are not one but two head sculpts and the body to consider, not to mention the sculpted sword, sheath, hand sculpts (including adamantium claws), base, and shoes. Let's go backwards (you can see some of these pieces in other photos in the review). The Japanese sword (katana) and its sheath are both sculpted and nicely scaled and detailed, especially the intricate wrist guard, loops, and the characters (writing) on the surface of the sword. The adamantium claws, added to fairly standard fists, are sturdy, cleanly sculpted, sharp, and appear to be made of light non-magnetic metal (aluminum/aluminium?). The base part of the action figure stand (a standard crotch-grabber, or whatever rude term we use for it these days) is a raised plastic platform molded to appear like rusted, worn/pitted metal, with a large X in the center. Certainly far more interesting than a bland (blank?) base that might already be more than what most "third party" companies provide. The shoes (short boots) are sculpted in intricate and realistic detail, from their laces and loops to the sole.

The rubbery (silicone?) body surface is molded into the shape of a tightly muscled body with defined muscles and some veins; the only thing missing are the nipples (oddly, as they are painted). Since someone is bound to ask (and be too shy to do so), I did check, and the figure is definitely male, and fully so -- the body is molded this way, no attachable/detachable parts. Not something that we necessarily need for this particular look, but since customization, poseable figures, and seamless bodies are all about being more realistic, I appreciate their commitment to realism. With the head(s) and shoes on, the body stands about 12.25 inches (31 cm) tall.

Then there are the two head sculpts. I'm not certain that the circumference of the body surface at the neck is ideal for the head sculpts. One can probably stuff something inside to increase it and decrease the current gap -- or perhaps the heads are sitting a little too high, and they do appear a little too large for the body (or is it Logan's hair?). But let's focus on the sculpts themselves. The one that comes "on" the body is the less agitated scowling one; the alternate head has an anrgy shouting expression. Normally I would prefer a less animated expression for a sixth-scale head, but I'm not actually sure which one I like better here, and whether that has anything to do with how well one or the other is executed. Either way, they did the right thing, providing both a more animated and a more neutral head sculpt (rather than one more animated one). Whether or not this is a perfect rendition of the actor's features (and I don't remember enough to tell if they are copies of previous sculpts), the head sculpt is very finely done in both cases, and the hair stranding is superb (suitably finer strands for most of the hair, but clumpier pieces for the spiky top). The shouting head sculpt has the added complexity of the open mouth with the teeth and tongue, and this too appears to have been executed very well.

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Paint - 3.5/4 stars
The paint applies to everything but the cloth parts of the outfit. The shoes and sword sheath are painted to look like leather, offset by a few metallic elements painted appropriately; the shoes are also given a bit of weathering. Each hand sculpt is painted to not only math the body, but also to match the painted-on body hair; the adamantium claws are painted to look stained with blood, and the same effect is applied to the fists to which they come attached.

We have seen some of this before. What makes this set unique, is that the painting is carried over to the seamless rubbery surface of the body. Individual body hairs are painted or printed, and appear to be reasonably hard-wearing (although I was fairly careful, I'm sure I would have noticed some damage if things weren't properly done). The hair is a little faint on the body (less so on the hand sculpts) and I wish it had been just a little bit more contrasting and that there was just a little more of it. They probably didn't want to overdo it, but even so the overall effect is quite good. And since someone was going to ask about that, I checked, and apart from the pubic area, the body hair treatment is not carried below the waist. Yep, apparently Logan shaves his legs. I know we weren't going to look at it, but it would have been nice if they had applied the hair painting/printing to that too. There appears to be some subtle spotting on the body surface, adding extra realism (though some of it may be dust or tiny strands attaching to the surface!). The nipples are painted softly (though disappointingly not sculpted). The use of fairly traditional plastic joint pegs was not a bad idea in itself, but they should have been given a less shiny surface to match the body and hands more closely; better yet, they should also have been given the body hair effect. Minor issues aside, there is a lot TBLeague and Jiaou can learn and re-learn from this set.

Both head sculpts are exquisitely painted. For one thing, they match the body surface color very well, something difficult to do with different materials. The work on the eyes (glossy, with tiny eyelashes), eyebrows, mustache and beard is all very fine; the hair is perhaps a little flat, but this is largely offset by the fine sculpting of the strands. While it is probably just short of perfect, I'm impressed by the paint application on the lips, teeth, and tongue (or more generally, mouth interior) on the more animated, shouting head sculpt.

addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Addwwb14

Articulation - 2.5/4 stars
There is no stainless steel skeleton inside the rubbery body surface here. The active joints are perhaps plastic; the movement is certainly a little jagged. You can achieve very decent articulation in most respects in the upper half of the body (for example, you can bend beyond 90 degrees at the elbows), although holding more extreme poses would prove impossible -- the joints are too weak to keep the material pushing them back to a less extreme position. This is where this body falls short of the standards set by TBLeague. In particular, trying to raise the arm over the shoulder and head results both in a bounce back and in an unsightly fold on top of the shoulder. Things get more problematic below the waist. Here it is hard to tell to what extent the problem is due to the body's joints and rubbery surface causing a bounce back, and to what extent to the restrictions caused by the fairly tight pants and fairly high rim of the footwear. As a result, he can bend at the knee only up to 90 degrees, and he cannot sit quite properly. The ankles are fairly sturdy, but very difficult to work with. They can allow you to tilt backwards and forwards, but rotating them sideways for additional support in some poses seems nearly impossible. This makes standing the figure on its own quite difficult. And that difficulty is exacerbated by the fact that the whole body has the tendency to bounce and wobble a little bit (making me wonder if it has a full skeleton of any material inside at all), and to renegotiate its pose or center of gravity. Getting this body in a specific pose might be easy within limits, but getting it to stand in that position can be very frustrating. Once again, I wish they had gone with a metal skeleton. There is a stand, of course, and if one poses an action figure on a shelf one would probably use the (a) stand anyway, but that isn't the point.

addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Addwwb15

Accessories - 4/4 stars
First, the set includes four additional pairs of hands, making five pairs total: fists (they come on the body), relaxed hands, pistol grip hands, sword grip hands, and the fists with the adamantium claws sticking out of them (these are located in the lower black foam trey, with the base/stand). Other spare parts include the alternative head sculpt (the shouting one). Then there is the Japanese sword and its sheath, which are the only "real" accessories. Note that the sword is not only finely sculpted, painted, and inscribed, it even has actual cord (I think) wound round its handle: very nice touch. I refuse to see a base/stand as an accessory proper, although the difficulties in getting the figure to stand certainly make it a relevant addition; and it certainly looks cool. There are a lot of hand choices here, but other than that this is not a whole lot of accessories. I have long forgotten the scene or film this is based on, so I can't guarantee there was anything else that could have been included (a pistol for the pistol grip hands?), and we should realize that there is a separate, "suit" version of the set (with a different action figure body but the same accessories). The reason why I'm not going to deduct points for this is the price of the set. When Hot Toys sells you a Leia without a single accessory for over $200, that is pretty insulting. When this pretty new and obscure outfit sells you an innovative and impressive, even if not quite perfect product for $165 and includes a couple of accessories, it is somehow less annoying... to me.

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Outfit - 3.5/4 stars
The outfit (excluding the sculpted footwear) is very simple: pants and belt. The pants are in a drab color, with a modicum of weathering, most obviously a long blood stain on the right side of the right upper leg, where the bloodied adamantium claws must have brushed against the fabric. It's a nice touch. The belt is made of stretchy cloth and works like a real belt, with a real buckle. Neither of these things is phenomenal, but they are more than adequate. Considering the look reproduced in the set, they are just right. The promotional materials mentioned socks, which do not appear to be included; I doubt they would be missed, and this is the only thing they promised that they did not deliver.

addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Addwwb17

Fun Factor - 3/4 stars
War Wolf has no one to play with (other than possibly his other self), and that hurts; but you can always improvise. The effective limitations on the articulation (bounce back, tight pants) are annoying, but not extreme. The worst problem is the difficulty standing and balancing the figure. But if you end up perching him on a stand on your shelf, that would no longer be an issue. As usual, the fun factor would vary from one collector to another, and depend on their imagination and interest.

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Value 3.5/4 stars
This is a popular protagonist from a popular franchise; the set is attractive and innovative, if fairly basic. That said, in the world of high-end sixth-scale collectibles, $165 (USD) including shipping is close to the lower, rather than the higher end of the price range, and I appreciate that. There was clearly some research and development that went into this, and while the result is not perfect, it is still impressive and in many ways a step forward (a step, one might add, that other, established outfits should have taken already but have not). But note that this price might not be available at all sources; in this instance I used eBay.

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Things to watch out for
Hard to tell yet. The body surface feels just a little sticky, and closer to TBLeague's silicone bodies than Jiaou's TPE ones (though I could be wrong); either way some protective powder probably won't hurt -- but I haven't tried it myself. I would not abuse the joints excessively; if they are indeed plastic, they might snap. Heat up the hand sculpts before placing on the pegs -- there are no spare pegs provided, and these are not exactly the same as the ones used by Soldier Story or DAM or by Hot Toys and others. Careful with exchanging the head sculpts -- they require some effort to remove or to attach, and you don't want to snap the neck peg that comes out of the body; heating up the head a little bit before trying this should help. I didn't try too hard to test it, but although it appeared safe and secure, I would handle the parts of the body where the hair effect has been applied with some basic care. That said, it is not as fragile (or the body as difficult to pose) as the twelfth-scale version of Logan that came out some time ago.

addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Addwwb20

Overall - 3.4/4 stars
In terms of looks, the set delivers everything it promised. While it is fairly limited, it does include a number of interchangeable parts, including two beautifully-executed head sculpts. And it commands a price nearer the lower end of the range current in our hobby. I do wish the articulation were better, while I realize TBLeague has spoiled us. But it has also set a standard that ADD should have made sure to match. As it is, neither has attained perfection.

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Where to Buy
You can always check eBay or the following (among others) --

Cotswold Collectibles for $180

Timewalker Toys for $180

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Hope this has been useful. As always, what do you think? And one more for the road (or, in Spanish, Una mas y vamos)

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#addtoys #warwolves #logan #wolverine #hughjackman #xmen #marvel #superhero #mutant #male #fiction #productreview


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2addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:38 pm

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Hmm, interesting! I like the fact that there's a hairy seamless chest, lol, though I think the headsculpts seem a bit oversized for it, as you noted. Nor am I crazy on those particular expressions they went with, though I do understand what they were going for. 

If only tbleague would make some 'hairy' chests... and arms, and legs, etc. Even if it's just painted on like it is here, it would be better than nothing.


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

3addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:48 pm

Stryker2011

Stryker2011
Founding Father
Good review. I agree, the heads do seem a little big. The body doesn’t look half bad; it actually works fairly good with the Cruise head on it.


_________________
Mark

He who dies with the most toys wins!

addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Bnp4ba10
Credit to greygoose for the signature card

4addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:02 pm

Ovy

Ovy
Wow I wondered already what kind of body that is when you posted him in that new purchase thread. I think it looks better and more realistic than any comparable tbleague or Jiaou body, it might be the texture. Steel skeleton would be great, though. I wonder if one day there will be a third big player emerging that produces seamless bodies.

You see, I am more interested in the body than the character, old cutsomizy me.

But I think this might be based on the weird 'Japanese' Wolverine. Were he happens to be in Hiroshima when the bomb falls, saves a random Japanese soldier who later becomes super rich and builds a giant Katana-Samurai-mecharobot. He also has a daughter who is Logan's love interest, of course.
It's a BIT cliché!

I think this might be one of those 'Family Katanas' - like every family in Japan owns, as we know here in the West.

5addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:32 pm

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
LOL, Ovy -- I'd wondered about the katana....thanks for the very amusing backstory. Laughing  

A 'third player' would indeed spice things up a bit... or at least, I'd hope it would. ;p


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

6addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:07 pm

Stryker2011

Stryker2011
Founding Father
There was a third player at one time — prior to either Phicen or Jiaou. They were Edation, and made the Hot Stuff fully seamless body — they were expensive bodies with no heads. The first one was very yellow. Their 2nd edition came in a pale or tan, and was around $130 USD. I have one of the first and the tan of the 2nd. The 2nd edition has a very greasy feeling skin, and they both had the ratchety skeleton system — very hard to work with. The coolest thing about them was the body design was very realistic proportionally — probably the most realistic female body shape. And they were indeed truly seamless. The feet and hands were all part of the body, and they had wires in the toes and fingers so they could all be posed individually. The engineering behind them wasn’t so great (the underlying skeleton), and they were out of most people’s price range when the average Phicen was going for $50 back then, so they appear to have gone the way of the Dodo.


_________________
Mark

He who dies with the most toys wins!

addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Bnp4ba10
Credit to greygoose for the signature card

7addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:47 pm

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
skywalkersaga wrote:Hmm, interesting! I like the fact that there's a hairy seamless chest, lol, though I think the headsculpts seem a bit oversized for it, as you noted. Nor am I crazy on those particular expressions they went with, though I do understand what they were going for. 

If only tbleague would make some 'hairy' chests... and arms, and legs, etc. Even if it's just painted on like it is here, it would be better than nothing.

So true. In the close-up photo it is obvious what it is and looks a little naive, from a distance you can't quite put your finger on it, but in-between it looks just right. What is it (it was starting to sound like a riddle...)? Why, ADD Toys painted body hair. Smile

Stryker2011 wrote:Good review. I agree, the heads do seem a little big. The body doesn’t look half bad; it actually works fairly good with the Cruise head on it.

Very true, on all counts. I figured the head would not sit as high on the neck with a different head sculpt, so Tom Cruise to the rescue (though I had a feeling it was not quite Mission Impossible). See more photos below. The point is, this might be good for some kitbashing.

Ovy wrote:Wow I wondered already what kind of body that is when you posted him in that new purchase thread. I think it looks better and more realistic than any comparable tbleague or Jiaou body, it might be the texture. Steel skeleton would be great, though I wonder if one day there will be a third big player emerging that produces seamless bodies.

You see, I am more interested in the body than the character, old cutsomizy me.

But I think this might be based on the weird 'Japanese' Wolverine. Were he happens to be in Hiroshima when the bomb falls, saves a random Japanese soldier who later becomes super rich and builds a giant Katana-Samurai-mecharobot...

Yes, I think you are correct, I was thinking along the same lines about the source of the movie; might have been the X-Men Origins Logan or something -- anyway the first more or less standalone Logan movie. The katana certainly suggests that, though I no longer remember the relevant scenes.

I do hope someone (ADD, TBL, Jiaou, someone else) would continue with these and do them right -- fully sculpted, fully complete, fully articulated, fully painted, sturdy and smooth-of-movement. In terms of quality, TBLeague is the leader in most respects; but this one definitely takes the lead in painted body appearance (so far), and this is a body type TBL overlooked, though it close with the M33 (but why, oh why the stupid ankle extenders and shortish legs!?).

Like you, I was also more interested in this for the body's potential in kitbashes and customs than necessarily for the specific character in this set.

Stryker2011 wrote:There was a third player at one time — prior to either Phicen or Jiaou. They were Edation, and made the Hot Stuff fully seamless body — they were expensive bodies with no heads. The first one was very yellow. Their 2nd edition came in a pale or tan, and was around $130 USD. I have one of the first and the tan of the 2nd. The 2nd edition has a very greasy feeling skin, and they both had the ratchety skeleton system — very hard to work with. The coolest thing about them was the body design was very realistic proportionally — probably the most realistic female body shape. And they were indeed truly seamless. The feet and hands were all part of the body, and they had wires in the toes and fingers so they could all be posed individually. The engineering behind them wasn’t so great (the underlying skeleton), and they were out of most people’s price range when the average Phicen was going for $50 back then, so they appear to have gone the way of the Dodo.

Yes, I remember these; never bought one, because I saw negative reviews about their quality; and back then $130 was more than you would pay for a fully-kitted out Star Wars figure from Hot Toys or Sideshow. Also, technically, it wasn't completely seamless, because you still had to provide a detachable head. Smile But I'm splitting hairs; I know what you mean. The "fully" seamless body idea is very cool, although in practice it would be a complications when going for specific types of footwear or gloved hands, etc. Then again, you will probably be using this body for less ambitious purposes fashion-wise.

Apparently they are still to be found, at least at ekiahobbies, third generation and a little less expensive:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EDATION-Hot-Stuff-1-6-Third-Gen-Female-Plump-Body-Cone-Joint-with-Skin-P03/293414699939?hash=item4450e103a3:g:oHcAAOSwGyZeFmFu🇸🇨USPSPriority!95409!US!-1

We had a thread on it HERE.

Now, as for Tom, I wanted to see if I can get the head to sit a little lower on the neck. Since the inside neck connectors on the two heads that came with the set weren't cooperative about getting removed, I grabbed the first head I had lying around. It does illustrate the point and looks a little better (although arguably perhaps even it is a tad on the largish side). So here are a couple more photos to illustrate the point, remembering the disclaimer from above... "just pretend it is a perfect color match and that Tom Cruise's real body is not actually the smoothest, most hairless naturally-occurring mammalian surface found on the planet (except of course in Tropic Thunder)"...

addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Addwwb24


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8addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:53 am

AlKelAstra91

AlKelAstra91
What, no gnarly back hair to accompany the front? Razz The body is actually pretty nice, like a more slim M33. I've not yet purchased an M33 due to the forearms being a bit bulkier than preferred, but (in these photos, at least) they are actually perfect. With a smaller headsculpt it would be great, but yeah, those are hard to come by in the male category (at least for me - impulse buying online - unless someone has hands-on experience for all of the smaller-sized heads and could elaborate?). For Wolverine's case, they could've alternatively made the shoulders a bit wider. He's known to be a runt, yeah, but also stocky and broad to make up for it. Wink

9addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:34 am

AerynDiana

AerynDiana
Very nice review, thank you!!
Bummer about the articulation though. I find it hard to accept anything under the TBLeague standard these days. At the very least they gotta be able to stand by themselves. All of my figures do that.

10addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:41 am

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
AlKelAstra - I know what you mean about the M33. I think the issue I have with that one is that the forearm area is a bit too large, but I guess that's a problem with a lot of tbleague figures , having rather pudgy forearms and wrists. I have to say I do find it nice to see bodies with a bit more realistic shape in the forearms and wrists areas. 

Diana - I am perhaps a little more willing to sacrifice certain aspects for the right body shape/height, but I think this has to do with wanting to create specific characters who require certain physiques that may not be available in tbleague form yet. It's different if one is collecting figures with the intent to keep them as-is. Though regardless I do agree that once one becomes 'spoiled' by tbleague poseability, it's hard to be totally content with anything else. ; )


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

11addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:47 am

AerynDiana

AerynDiana
GubernatorFan wrote:
Stryker2011 wrote:There was a third player at one time — prior to either Phicen or Jiaou. They were Edation, and made the Hot Stuff fully seamless body — they were expensive bodies with no heads. The first one was very yellow. Their 2nd edition came in a pale or tan, and was around $130 USD. I have one of the first and the tan of the 2nd. The 2nd edition has a very greasy feeling skin, and they both had the ratchety skeleton system — very hard to work with. The coolest thing about them was the body design was very realistic proportionally — probably the most realistic female body shape. And they were indeed truly seamless. The feet and hands were all part of the body, and they had wires in the toes and fingers so they could all be posed individually. The engineering behind them wasn’t so great (the underlying skeleton), and they were out of most people’s price range when the average Phicen was going for $50 back then, so they appear to have gone the way of the Dodo.

Yes, I remember these; never bought one, because I saw negative reviews about their quality; and back then $130 was more than you would pay for a fully-kitted out Star Wars figure from Hot Toys or Sideshow. Also, technically, it wasn't completely seamless, because you still had to provide a detachable head. Smile But I'm splitting hairs; I know what you mean. The "fully" seamless body idea is very cool, although in practice it would be a complications when going for specific types of footwear or gloved hands, etc. Then again, you will probably be using this body for less ambitious purposes fashion-wise.

Apparently they are still to be found, at least at ekiahobbies, third generation and a little less expensive:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EDATION-Hot-Stuff-1-6-Third-Gen-Female-Plump-Body-Cone-Joint-with-Skin-P03/293414699939?hash=item4450e103a3:g:oHcAAOSwGyZeFmFu🇸🇨USPSPriority!95409!US!-1
WHAT DID YOU DOOOOOOO????
I want one of these so badly right now. Third Gen, ball beg, small or medium bust please. Sold out everywhere. I'm gonna go and cry for a bit.

PS:
skywalkersaga wrote:Diana - I am perhaps a little more willing to sacrifice certain aspects for the right body shape/height, but I think this has to do with wanting to create specific characters who require certain physiques that may not be available in tbleague form yet. It's different if one is collecting figures with the intent to keep them as-is. Though regardless I do agree that once one becomes 'spoiled' by tbleague poseability, it's hard to be totally content with anything else. ; )

Totally get it. If the body type is gorgeous enough I'd make an exception. I've effectively made an exception with every HT purchase. Rolling Eyes

12addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:22 am

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Re: Edation -- I guess I didn't consider them as third players since they didn't stick around all that long. I'm not personally bothered about 'entirely' seamless bodies, I'd rather that a brand like tbleague would keep the same formula of the removeable hands and feet, but just try to improve the overall shapes [and skintones] of their bodies. Or, that a third party would indeed come in and start doing just that, in order to force tbleague to improve theirs in order to stay at the top. I realize I sound overly picky, as of course tbleague bodies are great for what they are, but I do have many nitpicks about them. I think they have a lot of potential to expand beyond their use as action figures, art models, and/or fetish objects, and be used for more beautiful and fashionable figures as well, but they need to have somewhat more elegant and streamlined features to truly fit in with that look, such as slimmer wrists, smaller busts, etc. Just my personal wish! 

Diana -- ha, yeah I feel you on the Hot Toys thing. I got really used to working on some of my female SW custom figures using tbleague bodies, that when I went back and tried to pose my HT Anakin figure, I was sooooo frustrated. Like wtf, why don't you stand up properly! Razz


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
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13addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:11 am

Stryker2011

Stryker2011
Founding Father
skywalkersaga wrote:I got really used to working on some of my female SW custom figures using tbleague bodies, that when I went back and tried to pose my HT Anakin figure, I was sooooo frustrated. Like wtf, why don't you stand up properly! Razz

2-piece boots would have helped.


_________________
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addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Bnp4ba10
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14addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:30 am

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Stryker2011 wrote:
skywalkersaga wrote:I got really used to working on some of my female SW custom figures using tbleague bodies, that when I went back and tried to pose my HT Anakin figure, I was sooooo frustrated. Like wtf, why don't you stand up properly! Razz

2-piece boots would have helped.

They certainly would have. Though the Anakin figure is not the only one with one-piece pleather boots. Admittedly, he's the only one I've officially unboxed so far though, so I don't know if the others [Obi-Wan and Dooku] suffer the same problem....


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

15addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:01 pm

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
AlKelAstra91 wrote:What, no gnarly back hair to accompany the front? Razz The body is actually pretty nice, like a more slim M33. I've not yet purchased an M33 due to the forearms being a bit bulkier than preferred, but (in these photos, at least) they are actually perfect. With a smaller headsculpt it would be great, but yeah, those are hard to come by in the male category (at least for me - impulse buying online - unless someone has hands-on experience for all of the smaller-sized heads and could elaborate?). For Wolverine's case, they could've alternatively made the shoulders a bit wider. He's known to be a runt, yeah, but also stocky and broad to make up for it. Wink

There is a lot of truth to that. M33 is my favorite among the less bulky TBLeague male bodies (M31 disappointed in so many ways, including product quality; M32 was good, but a bit too thin/tightly muscled, a very specific look), but I agree that they made the arms a bit long and bulky -- this is in part because they were probably intended to go with the overall proportions you would get if you attached the optional ankle extenders. And that was a horrible decision (if anything, they should have made the figure normal height for its proportions and then added -- possibly shorter -- ankle extenders if you wanted to make it even taller). I still hope they go back and redo this with proper proportions and no extenders.

As far as somewhat smaller head sculpts (not excessively small, but smaller than those that might look oversized), looking through my partial catalog (yep, I've amassed that many over the years, and am behind on cataloging them), I suggest looking at E&S (Easy and Simple) and Soldier Story heads. For example -- and sorry for any abbreviations or errors from my basic records, also I think these are all ones that don't require additional modification (i.e., de-necking) but something might have slipped through --
E&S SMU Rescue Team Tandem Halo A (Christian Bale),
E&S Task Force Skipper (which they also released in another set, I forget which),
E&S SMU Tier 1 Operator Part 2 USA,
E&S Black Ops Field Agent Langley,
E&S Commonwealth Special Forces Middle East (Sean Bean),
E&S Marine Special Ops Team Sharpshooter
E&S PMC Urban Operaton Assaulter (Bradley Cooper),
E&S CCT Combat Controller (Mark Forester),
E&S British Metro Police MPSSC019 (Ray Stevenson),
Soldier Story German KSK,
Soldier Story German GSG9SEK,
Soldier Story US Army FCS Testing Team (Josh Duhamel),
Soldier Story 1st Marine Spec Ops Batallion,
Soldier Story FBI Hostage Rescue Team (Matt Damon),
Soldier Story US Army 1st Special Forces ODD (John Cena),
Crazy Dummy SAW Gunner,
DAM German KSK Assaulter,
DAM German KSK Team Leader,
DAM Marine Force Recon Combat Diver Woodland (Chris Pine),
Green Wolf GALAC TAC Desert Raider (Sullivan Stapleton?),
Flagset Army Special Forces Group,
Flagset German KSK (Daniel Craig),
ACE Dewey Canyon 1969 UCMC 3rd FRec (Edward Norton),
High Toys Active Duty Republic of China Airforce Pilot,
POP Toys British Detective 3 (Benedict Cumberbatch)
I think there might be a pattern with German KSK heads, by any company, no? Smile I also think some of it may have to do with the haircut, for example E&S PMC Urban Operation Assaulter Viking (see the archer HERE) and E&S PMC Urban Grenadier (see both modified and unmodified HERE) don't look "small" but the actual head (if one were to exclude the sculpted hair) might be the same size, more or less, as the other E&S heads.

I hope this helps and you turn up some head sculpts you like among these examples.

AerynDiana wrote:Very nice review, thank you!!
Bummer about the articulation though. I find it hard to accept anything under the TBLeague standard these days. At the very least they gotta be able to stand by themselves. All of my figures do that.

Thank you very much, glad you liked it. I feel the same way. When a standard has been set, why come up short to it? That's what bewilders me about Jiaou and now this. On the other hand they both take steps forward that TBLeague should have thought of (and should catch up with now). The stability, sturdiness, and smooth movement of the stainless steel skeleton is generally unmatchable (though there are a couple of situations where a plastic or ratchet joint might have some advantage). But TBLeague can do better, for example applying (more) paint on the body (e.g., on the nipples on males -- and I think lately they've been getting lazy about this even on the females, body hair, general skintone paint with spotting or pitting) and additional bent-toe feet (like ACI and better than Jiaou, which tried something that turned out basically useless; thankfully they do usually provide alternate heel feet for the female figures). ADD did the body paint part right -- or at the very least much better than the others have.

AerynDiana wrote:WHAT DID YOU DOOOOOOO???? I want one of these so badly right now. Third Gen, ball peg, small or medium bust please. Sold out everywhere. I'm gonna go and cry for a bit.

You are welcome. Smile Just go for one of those that are available, as close as possible to your preferences (they have "white" and "skin" which means approximately "pale" and "suntan"). You can modify the neck peg if you really have to (I appreciate Jiaou giving us alternatives in that respect -- they did that part right).


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16addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:07 pm

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Wow, that's quite a resource for smaller male headsculpts, GF. Will have to come back to use as reference in future.


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

17addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:38 pm

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
skywalkersaga wrote:Wow, that's quite a resource for smaller male headsculpts, GF. Will have to come back to use as reference in future.

Just trying to be helpful. As long as no one expects me to upload all these photos Smile


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18addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:51 pm

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Well, it's VERY helpful! And don't worry, no pics needed -- you provided plenty of info to go off with just the descriptions. Thanks for that. Smile


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

19addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:28 pm

Joe Friday

Joe Friday
I almost ordered one of these a while back. I have been looking on eBay for one of these bodies and can only find the clothed body version. I was wanting to get this hairy seamless body and actually root body hair onto the belly, chest and armpits.


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20addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:26 am

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
skywalkersaga wrote:Well, it's VERY helpful! And don't worry, no pics needed -- you provided plenty of info to go off with just the descriptions. Thanks for that. Smile

You're welcome, I'm glad it's useful.

Joe Friday wrote:I almost ordered one of these a while back. I have been looking on eBay for one of these bodies and can only find the clothed body version. I was wanting to get this hairy seamless body and actually root body hair onto the belly, chest and armpits.

I haven't seen any of these parted out on eBay yet, but I'm sure it will happen. Toys Anxiety had parted it out, and hopefully it will again. In case that was not apparent in the photos, perhaps strangely, there was no armpit hair painted on. Come to think of it, I wonder what kind of glue is best for attaching additional hair to such bodies. Silicone glue would make sense, but I don't think we ever found out what Ephiane used for her customs, and she definitely did what you are intending to do.


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21addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:26 am

Joe Friday

Joe Friday
I asked a well known hair rooted what kind of glue he would use and he said Rocket glue. He then said he'd touch it up with some matte sealer just in case the glue left a glossy sheen to it.
But I believe I failed to mention to him that the body was not going to be your standard hard plastic material. I wonder if that would make a difference.


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22addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:53 pm

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
Joe Friday wrote:I asked a well known hair rooted what kind of glue he would use and he said Rocket glue. He then said he'd touch it up with some matte sealer just in case the glue left a glossy sheen to it.
But I believe I failed to mention to him that the body was not going to be your standard hard plastic material. I wonder if that would make a difference.

Well, it is silicone (I think)... I haven't tried superglue on it, but when I used to paint the nipples on TBLeague bodies with acrylics and later on with silc pig (silicone pigment), I would mix that with silicone glue (sold in Hardware stores for purposes similar to caulking, etc). It did allow a better bond, although you could still pick it off if you wanted to. Perhaps it would be appropriate for this purpose, too. If one were to paint hairs onto the silicone surface, I wonder if applying oil paint with a tiny brush and then rubbing it in with a q-tip might work (since oil pastels would be difficult to sharpen (and keep from constantly breaking) to such a fine point.


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23addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:05 pm

Stryker2011

Stryker2011
Founding Father
I tried a spray matte finish sealer on a TBL body (after test painting with acrylic in an area that wouldn’t show) — under NO circumstances will this work! I repeat: do not do this! The aerosol acted like a flame/or even a freezing agent, as the skin blistered and open cavities appeared.


_________________
Mark

He who dies with the most toys wins!

addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Bnp4ba10
Credit to greygoose for the signature card

24addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:06 pm

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Yikes, that's intense. Thanks for the warning!

ETA: Regarding adding hair -- I recall some old threads about making custom ahm... 'merkins' for some of the female figures, and I think all that was used was double sided tape, to which was stuck some hair [whether lamb hair or synthetic, I have no idea]. Of course, the double sided tape thing only works if you have 'patches' of hair, so wouldn't do for overall body hair. But that's the only method I've seen of actually sticking hair directly onto the silicone bodies. ;p 

I'm quite dubious about the success of using glue on the silicone in any large amounts, though maybe it's just my own unsuccessful experiments talking. Maybe Ephiane might be able to assist, since as others have mentioned she is the seamless body transformation sorceress! ;D


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

25addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:55 pm

Joe Friday

Joe Friday
Does Ephiane frequent these forums?


_________________
Just the facts, ma'am.

26addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:25 pm

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Yes, she certainly does — she just hasn’t been posting as much lately.


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

27addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:52 am

rollotomasi

rollotomasi
I'm very impressed with realistic looking body. The "hair" paint apps, looks just about perfect for me, Worldbox could learn a thing or two from that.

Apologies if i missed it in your write up, so he's also rubber below the waist?

28addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:20 am

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
rollotomasi wrote:I'm very impressed with realistic looking body. The "hair" paint apps, looks just about perfect for me, Worldbox could learn a thing or two from that.

Apologies if i missed it in your write up, so he's also rubber below the waist?

I am impressed with the same thing, too. If you zoom in closely enough, you can see it is not quite as realistic or as dense as the real thing, but from mid-distance the hair effect works really well. Worldbox at least tried, and their second try was better than the first, but yes, this is possibly better yet. TBLeague and Jiaou can learn even more from this (except when it comes to sturdiness and articulation, where they are better). Smile

It is a perfectly seamless body just like a TBLeague or a Jiaou -- that is to say up to the neck (or rather head) line, then down to the wrists, and just below the ankles. So yes, the "rubber" (or whatever it really is) does go on below the waist. Unfortunately, the painted/printed hair effect does not (except for the pubic area, where it does).


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29addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:31 am

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
That's frustrating...he should have hairy legs as well, lol! ;p


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

30addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:06 pm

Theboo-bomb

Theboo-bomb
The body looks cool, the head as you said is a bit big plus I personally feel like it doesn't go well with the body.


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31addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:59 pm

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
skywalkersaga wrote:That's frustrating...he should have hairy legs as well, lol! ;p

Yes, I know, it's the principle of the thing! I'm considering solutions...

Theboo-bomb wrote:The body looks cool, the head as you said is a bit big plus I personally feel like it doesn't go well with the body.

To be honest, I'm not exactly loving either sculpt, although for once I think my zoomed-in photos make them look better than in hand (just a feeling). They are nevertheless very well made, and this impresses me from this new company. Perhaps because I wasn't so interested in this as a portrait of the character as much as a potential new seamless body alternative, it doesn't bother me too much. I appreciate the "pros" of the body, but I am disappointed in the "cons." If we can call them "pros" and "cons," which isn't quite right either, but I think you know what I mean.


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32addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:19 pm

actionfiguremovies2

actionfiguremovies2
I think he looks very cool. I like the Cruise head better than Logan. Also seem a step up body wise.

33addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:50 pm

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
actionfiguremovies2 wrote:I think he looks very cool. I like the Cruise head better than Logan. Also seem a step up body wise.

Thanks, I thought so too.


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34addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:42 am

asgardianboy


Thanks to everyone involved for your insight, that Tropic Thunder flick, which I wasn't aware of, being the most precious!! OMG!!

My 2c concerning:

- the ADD Toys War Wolves body: as far as internal proportions go, there is something very wrong about this body, and it is not only the heads being way too big... It is the legs. Way too long and thin for a dude of this caliber. Don't you think guys? Just look at the body as a whole on one of those pictures and you'll see.
BTW: can anybody report on colour matchability of this body with common headsculpts? The Tom Cruise is clearly paler than the WW body. Even the original Wolverine head is not a perfect match (too yellow wrt the body).

- TBLeague in general: even if they have come a long way on male bodies (the only iterations I have witnessed, I got too late to the party with female bodies), I would only consider the latest entries as more or less realistic. I mean M34, M35 and the 2 M36s. From there backwards, I find them lacking even when compared to older entries such as Hot Toys Hell Boy, which in my view still is breathtakingly realistic and a benchmark for seamless bodies. Then, there are other issues that seem to be unsurmountable, such as nonexistent nipples, long-term durability (lower than it seemed, by recent accounts) and above all, overall body colours. Not that I am an expert, but after some years loosely monitoring these things, I still have to see a picture showing a perfect match of a Phicen male body with an off-the-shelf head sculpt, Phicen bodies being way too rosy to match the yellowish skin tone headsculpts usually sport.

I am still waiting for TBLeague to release another milestone fixing these problems and enter a new era. I could use the M33 (for its arms) and the M34/M35, but not until the fix skin colour (which they don't seem to be inclined to do). Meanwhile, and luckily, other players are certainly hitting Phicen hard with nice innovations: this ADD Toys body is way more realistic than any of Phicen's attempts, and the painted details only add to its superior quality. Unlickily, very wrong internal proportions keep me from picking it up. I am dying to buy seamless bodies, but I won't until they are more mature.

- Edation body: I had missed this one! I can't afford it, especially in the light of bad reviews, but in my view, this is the way to go. No visible ankle/wrist articulations is the grial, not a doubt about it in my head. Needless to say, bendy hands have always been the way to go for me too (all those replacement hands in HT figures... :-( ), me hoping that better sculpts and engineering might help bendy hands to become more easy to pose, and above all, realistic when bent (they are not yet). Alas, durability concerns are certainly scary. Losing a whole body because of a single finger's rubber cover breaking, would be too much to swallow. On the light side, the benefits sound like a wet dream: poses with bent feet (if shoes are flexible enough to allow this), any hand pose achievable (for increased expressivity), no seams in sight... wow......
I do hope Edation further iterates their bodies. And if anyone in the room can shed more light on these, please do!



Finally, I'd like to call your attention on this body

https://bbts1.azureedge.net/images/p/full/2015/12/WOB10010_i.jpg

Has any of you tried it? How good was skin colour match? Is there an actual paintjob on the seamless arm sleeves? What about articulation? And durability?



Thanks everyone!!!
Greetings,
m.

35addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:52 am

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
asgardianboy wrote:Thanks to everyone involved for your insight, that Tropic Thunder flick, which I wasn't aware of, being the most precious!! OMG!!

- the ADD Toys War Wolves body: as far as internal proportions go, there is something very wrong about this body, and it is not only the heads being way too big... It is the legs. Way too long and thin for a dude of this caliber. Don't you think guys? Just look at the body as a whole on one of those pictures and you'll see.
BTW: can anybody report on colour matchability of this body with common headsculpts? The Tom Cruise is clearly paler than the WW body. Even the original Wolverine head is not a perfect match (too yellow wrt the body).

- TBLeague in general: even if they have come a long way on male bodies (the only iterations I have witnessed, I got too late to the party with female bodies), I would only consider the latest entries as more or less realistic. I mean M34, M35 and the 2 M36s. From there backwards, I find them lacking even when compared to older entries such as Hot Toys Hell Boy, which in my view still is breathtakingly realistic and a benchmark for seamless bodies. Then, there are other issues that seem to be unsurmountable, such as nonexistent nipples, long-term durability (lower than it seemed, by recent accounts) and above all, overall body colours. Not that I am an expert, but after some years loosely monitoring these things, I still have to see a picture showing a perfect match of a Phicen male body with an off-the-shelf head sculpt, Phicen bodies being way too rosy to match the yellowish skin tone headsculpts usually sport.

I am still waiting for TBLeague to release another milestone fixing these problems and enter a new era. I could use the M33 (for its arms) and the M34/M35, but not until the fix skin colour (which they don't seem to be inclined to do). Meanwhile, and luckily, other players are certainly hitting Phicen hard with nice innovations: this ADD Toys body is way more realistic than any of Phicen's attempts, and the painted details only add to its superior quality. Unlickily, very wrong internal proportions keep me from picking it up. I am dying to buy seamless bodies, but I won't until they are more mature.

- Edation body: I had missed this one! I can't afford it, especially in the light of bad reviews, but in my view, this is the way to go. No visible ankle/wrist articulations is the grial, not a doubt about it in my head. Needless to say, bendy hands have always been the way to go for me too (all those replacement hands in HT figures... :-( ), me hoping that better sculpts and engineering might help bendy hands to become more easy to pose, and above all, realistic when bent (they are not yet). Alas, durability concerns are certainly scary. Losing a whole body because of a single finger's rubber cover breaking, would be too much to swallow. On the light side, the benefits sound like a wet dream: poses with bent feet (if shoes are flexible enough to allow this), any hand pose achievable (for increased expressivity), no seams in sight... wow......
I do hope Edation further iterates their bodies. And if anyone in the room can shed more light on these, please do!

Finally, I'd like to call your attention on this body

https://bbts1.azureedge.net/images/p/full/2015/12/WOB10010_i.jpg

Has any of you tried it? How good was skin colour match? Is there an actual paintjob on the seamless arm sleeves? What about articulation? And durability?

ADD - The legs are long, possibly too long. They certainly do appear too long given the way they end: with this type of (unusual) ankle peg and this type of footwear. If the foot began just where the rubbery skin ended, it might look closer to natural. I did pick up an extra parted-out body to experiment with and can confirm this. It is difficult to put together any workable alternative to what they have done, and the practical one (extracting the ankle peg from the footwear and finding feet that will work with it) results in an equally elongated look. Not to mention the ankle pegs sticking out like a sore thumb (even more than the wrist pegs do). The length of the overall legs (legs+ankle pegs+feet or shoes) certainly does not help the body's stability and balance.  The limited articulation and limited ability to hold poses remain very annoying. Like I said, if only TBLeague could apply this type of paint work (but more complete) onto its existing bodies (though these, too, could be improved -- as long as there are no steps backwards), we would get something better in the realm of seamless figures than we have had so far. The Tom Cruise head was not selected because of matching the body's skin tone closely -- it was the most convenient head to try at the moment to check whether the head sitting lower on the neck would improve the slight giraffe neck and baloon head effect we seem to have with this set.

I was discouraged by the reviews from picking up the Edation body. It does look great in principle, and if that were a TBLeague product with a stainless steel skeleton and the fairly hard-wearing silicone rubbery "skin" (really, "flesh"), I would. That said, perhaps I'm jaded, but I think real seamless wrists and ankles would be too limiting for many practical purposes, and it may take a long while before a major company invests in that. What I mean is, you'll be committing to a base body on which you will probably have no way of applying gloved hands (there are removable gloves, but few and far between, and will they fit the seamless hands?), or most types of footwear (unless they decide to under-size the feet; the current TBLeague male feet, in particular, are near impossible to fit into sixth-scale footwear designed to take entire feet). So, in essence, you would be looking at a body that is stuck being an artistic nude or a scantily-clad beach (or whatever) bum/bunny. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily, but it does limit the potential applications, and therefore arguably the potential profits, of the company that would make them. I think it would be neat, although I would wish it lent itself to greater customization. And let's not forget that those bodies still wouldn't be completely seamless, unless they came with a seamless head. Then you will be stuck with whatever head sculpt they chose. As far as head sculpts not matching the TBLeague bodies, there are plenty that do and plenty that don't. If nothing else, you could pick up some TBLeague head sculpts (granted, there are far more female than male ones in that category). A range of other companies head sculpts would also fit, although it may make a difference when they were made. For example, newer HT and DAM heads seem to be getting paler in color, but older ones would be closer to the TBLeague male "suntan." Jiaou does better with its wider range of skin tones (by contrast, TBLeague has settled on two for the females and one for the males -- excepting that M36 version), but even those have their limitations, and some are substantially different from what they advertise (most notably the "black" which is at best medium tan). Look around the Clothing TBLeague Seamless Bodies thread or others on this forum to see some examples -- though not all the head sculpts used were necessarily chosen to match perfectly (I know that in my posts, I try to change up/rotate head sculpts so things don't get too boring, and that often means not worrying about a precise skin tone match). (That thread also has the ADD seamless body with a different head in a recent installment.)

It might help if you provide the model number of that World Box body. I think I have it somewhere (it's not their newest), but it would be a while before I can check. If I recall, it is quite good, like most of them. The muscle bodies (which have less articulation as they prioritize look over poseability) are the most durable ones, and in my experience the World Box bodies that allow attaching/detaching arms at the shoulders do so a little too loosely -- but that observation is based on a different model that did not come with seamless arms options. These more slender models with detachable necks, etc, are generally decent base bodies, allowing for more articulation, but they too can have a higher center of gravity (or maybe it is just density/weight) making them potentially unstable. Anyway, I'll look for it before I comment further.


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36addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:28 pm

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Thanks for your input, asgardianboy. Smile I agree that tbleague has quite a few improvements to make, but I'm personally not bothered in the slightest about having totally seamless bodies, for many of the reasons GF stated. But also because I'm perfectly contented to 'hide' the joints when necessary, especially since most of my figures are clothed anyway.

Where I feel tbleague needs to improve is in overall body SHAPE, for both female and male bodies. I don't mind the existing body shapes, but I'd prefer to have a LOT more options in that regard. Tbleague have at least been trying to branch out a tiny bit more with the female bodies in the last year or so, adding a 'buxom' body and some others, but still a bit behind on variety with the male body shapes. Would be nice to have somewhat more versatile 'normal' looking male bodies, for sure.

And we won't even get started on lack of skintone variety. That being said, for now it suits my purposes just fine to use the oil pastel technique to colour bodies in the variations I need.

Headsculpts not matching perfectly is another that.... doesn't really bother me?? I can understand why some people are focused on this, but at the same time... the nature of heads being hard plastic while the bodies are soft silicone means that the light will always be hitting them slightly differently. Probably the main way to get as close as possible to reducing that effect would be to use a matte spray on the headsculpts, like Mr. Super Clear matte varnish. Even then it might not mean the light hits exactly the same, but it might help. Other than that, I'm happy to repaint my sculpts to match bodies when necessary.

With male sculpts, I think some Hot Toys skintones look fine enough with the male tbleague body colour.... at least, when I've compared them in-hand and in photos, the match is 'close enough' that it passes for me. But of course everyone's mileage varies, as does everyone's eye for detail and colour.

As for durability, again, I can understand people's concerns about this, and of course would not recommend going around swapping all bodies to tbleague bodies if one is worried about them not lasting a long time. But for making a custom figure from scratch, I find them perfectly adequate so far. I'd rather create a figure that fits my specifications that will last two or three years before having to potentially replace the body, than never make any figure at all. In some cases, this is the dilemma I have found myself in, and because I am keen to work on certain characters, using these bodies is a risk I'm willing to take. If someday there's a better and more durable option for seamless bodies, then I will go through my customs and try to upgrade them. Until then... I'm happy to take the chance. : )

Re: the WorldBox body, if it is the AT025, then it's one I'm also eyeing up to potentially purchase. I haven't quite decided yet, but if I do go for it I'll report back. Smile


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

37addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:41 pm

asgardianboy


skywalkersaga wrote:Thanks for your input, asgardianboy. Smile I agree that tbleague has quite a few improvements to make, but I'm personally not bothered in the slightest about having totally seamless bodies, for many of the reasons GF stated. But also because I'm perfectly contented to 'hide' the joints when necessary, especially since most of my figures are clothed anyway.

Where I feel tbleague needs to improve is in overall body SHAPE, for both female and male bodies. I don't mind the existing body shapes, but I'd prefer to have a LOT more options in that regard. Tbleague have at least been trying to branch out a tiny bit more with the female bodies in the last year or so, adding a 'buxom' body and some others, but still a bit behind on variety with the male body shapes. Would be nice to have somewhat more versatile 'normal' looking male bodies, for sure.

And we won't even get started on lack of skintone variety. That being said, for now it suits my purposes just fine to use the oil pastel technique to colour bodies in the variations I need.

Headsculpts not matching perfectly is another that.... doesn't really bother me?? I can understand why some people are focused on this, but at the same time... the nature of heads being hard plastic while the bodies are soft silicone means that the light will always be hitting them slightly differently. Probably the main way to get as close as possible to reducing that effect would be to use a matte spray on the headsculpts, like Mr. Super Clear matte varnish. Even then it might not mean the light hits exactly the same, but it might help. Other than that, I'm happy to repaint my sculpts to match bodies when necessary.

With male sculpts, I think some Hot Toys skintones look fine enough with the male tbleague body colour.... at least, when I've compared them in-hand and in photos, the match is 'close enough' that it passes for me. But of course everyone's mileage varies, as does everyone's eye for detail and colour.

As for durability, again, I can understand people's concerns about this, and of course would not recommend going around swapping all bodies to tbleague bodies if one is worried about them not lasting a long time. But for making a custom figure from scratch, I find them perfectly adequate so far. I'd rather create a figure that fits my specifications that will last two or three years before having to potentially replace the body, than never make any figure at all. In some cases, this is the dilemma I have found myself in, and because I am keen to work on certain characters, using these bodies is a risk I'm willing to take. If someday there's a better and more durable option for seamless bodies, then I will go through my customs and try to upgrade them. Until then... I'm happy to take the chance. : )

Re: the WorldBox body, if it is the AT025, then it's one I'm also eyeing up to potentially purchase. I haven't quite decided yet, but if I do go for it I'll report back. Smile

I have sent emails to Phicen asking for other builts and skin colours. To no avail.
You can't always cover the wrists/ankles.... :-(
Your tip to "dull up" the head is noted. Light reflection indeed is a very important factor. Thanks! ;-)
I understand you see the business case for your Phicens.
If you ever get the AT025, let us know!
Heads matching Phicen bodies should be more. If restricted to a few heads, the joy of kitbashing with these bodies gets hit. Phicen should fill the colour gap!
Thanks,
m.

38addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:11 pm

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
asgardianboy wrote:

I have sent emails to Phicen asking for other builts and skin colours. To no avail.
You can't always cover the wrists/ankles.... :-(
Your tip to "dull up" the head is noted. Light reflection indeed is a very important factor. Thanks! ;-)
I understand you see the business case for your Phicens.
If you ever get the AT025, let us know!
Heads matching Phicen bodies should be more. If restricted to a few heads, the joy of kitbashing with these bodies gets hit. Phicen should fill the colour gap!
Thanks,
m.

Sorry they have not responded to your emails about the skintones and body shapes, that's unfortunate. Hopefully they will 'get the memo' all the same and eventually branch out more. The lack of skintone variety is especially eggregious at this stage -- they really should be aiming for more diversity on that score. And I know people will say that this is because 'there aren't any matching headsculpts out there for PoC skintones', but that's not really an excuse. I say that because tbleague does occasionally change their recipe for their standard skintone colours, as we have recently noted in a thread here, and I have likewise noticed that certain headsculpt companies will then change their paintjobs on the heads to 'match' better. I noticed this with the Natalie Portman PT001 headsculpt that started out with the previous 'greyish' tbleague suntan skintone, and then the later ones had different paintjob that matched the newer, more reddish suntan tone. My point being, that if they can change the colour so subtly, then surely if tbleague came out with more skin colours, the headsculpt companies would immediately start putting out heads to match them. Just my feeling anyway. So there isn't really a good reason not to do this, from what I can tell...

And I hope I didn't come across as dismissive about headsculpt-matching issue in general, but just wanted to give the perspective of someone who uses them more for certain types of custom figures where perhaps that side of things is not such a big focus. Of course, everyone's needs and requirements in this hobby vary, and for the sake of those who wish for complete perfection with the skintone matches, I do hope that tbleague/phicen will eventually provide more sculpts. Though again, sometimes whether heads 'match' or not truly is in the eye of the beholder, so even if a company thinks they have made a 'match', it might not look so to us picky customizers and collectors! :'D


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

39addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:26 pm

asgardianboy


skywalkersaga wrote:
asgardianboy wrote:

I have sent emails to Phicen asking for other builts and skin colours. To no avail.
You can't always cover the wrists/ankles.... :-(
Your tip to "dull up" the head is noted. Light reflection indeed is a very important factor. Thanks! ;-)
I understand you see the business case for your Phicens.
If you ever get the AT025, let us know!
Heads matching Phicen bodies should be more. If restricted to a few heads, the joy of kitbashing with these bodies gets hit. Phicen should fill the colour gap!
Thanks,
m.

Sorry they have not responded to your emails about the skintones and body shapes, that's unfortunate. Hopefully they will 'get the memo' all the same and eventually branch out more. The lack of skintone variety is especially eggregious at this stage -- they really should be aiming for more diversity on that score. And I know people will say that this is because 'there aren't any matching headsculpts out there for PoC skintones', but that's not really an excuse. I say that because tbleague does occasionally change their recipe for their standard skintone colours, as we have recently noted in a thread here, and I have likewise noticed that certain headsculpt companies will then change their paintjobs on the heads to 'match' better. I noticed this with the Natalie Portman PT001 headsculpt that started out with the previous 'greyish' tbleague suntan skintone, and then the later ones had different paintjob that matched the newer, more reddish suntan tone. My point being, that if they can change the colour so subtly, then surely if tbleague came out with more skin colours, the headsculpt companies would immediately start putting out heads to match them. Just my feeling anyway. So there isn't really a good reason not to do this, from what I can tell...

And I hope I didn't come across as dismissive about headsculpt-matching issue in general, but just wanted to give the perspective of someone who uses them more for certain types of custom figures where perhaps that side of things is not such a big focus. Of course, everyone's needs and requirements in this hobby vary, and for the sake of those who wish for complete perfection with the skintone matches, I do hope that tbleague/phicen will eventually provide more sculpts. Though again, sometimes whether heads 'match' or not truly is in the eye of the beholder, so even if a company thinks they have made a 'match', it might not look so to us picky customizers and collectors! :'D

TBLeague doesn't even have to go multicolour. They only need to provide neutral tone bodies, different colour dye kits, and a colour guide showing how to achieve different usual skin colours (I think it is a thread on OSW on which they are successfully dyeing Phicen bodies with Rit Dye, and Phicen really should read that one).

m.

40addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:29 pm

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
asgardianboy wrote:
skywalkersaga wrote:
asgardianboy wrote:

I have sent emails to Phicen asking for other builts and skin colours. To no avail.
You can't always cover the wrists/ankles.... :-(
Your tip to "dull up" the head is noted. Light reflection indeed is a very important factor. Thanks! ;-)
I understand you see the business case for your Phicens.
If you ever get the AT025, let us know!
Heads matching Phicen bodies should be more. If restricted to a few heads, the joy of kitbashing with these bodies gets hit. Phicen should fill the colour gap!
Thanks,
m.

Sorry they have not responded to your emails about the skintones and body shapes, that's unfortunate. Hopefully they will 'get the memo' all the same and eventually branch out more. The lack of skintone variety is especially eggregious at this stage -- they really should be aiming for more diversity on that score. And I know people will say that this is because 'there aren't any matching headsculpts out there for PoC skintones', but that's not really an excuse. I say that because tbleague does occasionally change their recipe for their standard skintone colours, as we have recently noted in a thread here, and I have likewise noticed that certain headsculpt companies will then change their paintjobs on the heads to 'match' better. I noticed this with the Natalie Portman PT001 headsculpt that started out with the previous 'greyish' tbleague suntan skintone, and then the later ones had different paintjob that matched the newer, more reddish suntan tone. My point being, that if they can change the colour so subtly, then surely if tbleague came out with more skin colours, the headsculpt companies would immediately start putting out heads to match them. Just my feeling anyway. So there isn't really a good reason not to do this, from what I can tell...

And I hope I didn't come across as dismissive about headsculpt-matching issue in general, but just wanted to give the perspective of someone who uses them more for certain types of custom figures where perhaps that side of things is not such a big focus. Of course, everyone's needs and requirements in this hobby vary, and for the sake of those who wish for complete perfection with the skintone matches, I do hope that tbleague/phicen will eventually provide more sculpts. Though again, sometimes whether heads 'match' or not truly is in the eye of the beholder, so even if a company thinks they have made a 'match', it might not look so to us picky customizers and collectors! :'D

TBLeague doesn't even have to go multicolour. They only need to provide neutral tone bodies, different colour dye kits, and a colour guide showing how to achieve different usual skin colours (I think it is a thread on OSW on which they are successfully dyeing Phicen bodies with Rit Dye, and Phicen really should read that one).

m.

The thread you are thinking of is here on this forum: Wink

https://onesixthfigures.forumotion.com/t2628-dyeing-phicen-figures-with-rit-dye-nsfw


And yes, I recall you mentioning that idea. It would be fun to have that option, but I don't see tbleague ever providing that, realistically. I think it is much more in the realms of possibility for them to produce base bodies in a wider variety/range of 'standard' skintones.... even if they are dragging their feet about getting around to doing so. Smile


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)
https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/

41addtoys - ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) Empty Re: ADD TOYS War Wolves Back (muscle version) on Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:32 pm

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
asgardianboy wrote:I have sent emails to Phicen asking for other builts and skin colours. To no avail.
You can't always cover the wrists/ankles.... :-(
Your tip to "dull up" the head is noted. Light reflection indeed is a very important factor. Thanks! ;-)
I understand you see the business case for your Phicens.
If you ever get the AT025, let us know!
Heads matching Phicen bodies should be more. If restricted to a few heads, the joy of kitbashing with these bodies gets hit. Phicen should fill the colour gap!

See my response to your comments, and the linked thread, in post 35 above.

I agree that you can't/wouldn't want to always cover the wrists and ankles, and that there might be something that could be done about the design that might improve this -- at least slightly. Similarly, there are going to be times when you want those joints to be open and allow attaching/detaching hand- and foot/footwear-sculpts. You mentioned bendable toes. In seamless bodies these have not allowed the figures to stand unassisted, and even in regular visible-jointed bodies they are a point of weakness. ACI provided a separate bent-toe foot-sculpt for at least some of its base bodies, and of course many companies (TBLeague included) have provided a different type of bent sculpt for female feet intended to wear high heels. At any rate, that is more promising when it comes to poseability and stability, and requires detachable feet. Again, as I said in my earlier response, I have nothing against a more truly seamless alternative, although I think it would be of rather limited use.

I don't think that was the AT025 -- unless I've already misplaced the seamless arms from its box.
Edit: yep, AT025 doesn't come with alternative seamless arms...
https://onesixthfigures.forumotion.com/t36-new-product-worldbox-1-6-durable-body-action-body-at025?highlight=at025

And I agree that TBLeague should make more skin tones available, which would be to reverse its own policy (it used to have more, at least for the female bodies). But I suppose it will ultimately come down to a business decision of whether this would sell well enough to offset the cost of separate/additional machinery, dies, quality control, etc, etc. I also suppose it might take a more massive e-mail campaign (perhaps an outright petition with many subscribers essentially vouching to buy whatever numbers of (for example) paler longer-legged (no ankle extenders) painted-nippled and body-haired M33s (or whatever) for TBLeague to make a move in whatever direction. But I also suspect that right now people in China (and not just China) have bigger worries on their minds...


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