Death and the Maiden: RotS-style Anakin and Padme [image heavy]

Hello everyone, and May the Fourth Be With You!



In honour of Star Wars Day, I really wanted to do something special. Even though circumstances aren't the greatest right now, I'm thankful that this year I was able to finally finish a 'grail' project that I've had planned for a quite long time... pretty much since the Hot Toys Anakin was announced. In fact, it was this particular Padme figure that brought me to this forum and was the subject of my very first post -- I was searching for a petite 1/6 body that had seamless shoulders, and that lead me to the tbleague discussions here on OSF. So thank you for being here to help me find the answers I needed. :')

First of all, a little bit about the figures: Anakin is the official Hot Toys RotS Anakin with rooted tibetan lamb hair. The Padme is a custom creation.

Photos I took of Padme upon completion: 











For those who may not be familiar or who may not recall it from the film, this the inspiration:






And here are selections from a series of photoshoots taken over the last week or so -- supposed to be imagined  moments of Anakin and Padme in her Coruscant apartment:

**Please note that I'm not a photographer and don't have aspirations in that area. Also, I was taking the majority of these on a phone with a partially broken screen, so I could barely even see what I was doing (old-school photography-style lol).




















Some faves:










Dramatic nighttime shots:




















Inspiration:

For the above pics, I was mainly inspired by scenes and concept art from The Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith:

Scene and concept art of Padme's apartment from TCW episode 'Senate Spy'





Scenes/stills from RotS:






Concept art for RotS by Iain McCaig:






Probably my biggest influence is this particular piece:



'I wanted to show that this poor guy is trapped by shadows, and she is stuck in the light, and the hand that reaches out to touch her isn't even a human hand anymore.'
--Iain McCaig

My homage to it:




As you can see, my view of Anakin and Padme is highly Romantic with a capital 'R' -- I like to interpret them as akin to a space!Hades and Persephone, aka Death and the Maiden, as well as being a sort of alchemical Union of Opposites. As you all know, I'm also more than a little obsessed with Anakin's mechanical arm, and given it's rather skeletal appearance it seemed perfect to incorporate into this series of photos. ;D

That's all for the night... will do a separate post with further info on the figures soon. : )

Very nice, and thanks for the image references. Did you make her (is that a nightgown?) dress? If you haven’t tried it, and I’m not sure what that material is, or how easy it may wrinkle, but if you wet it (use a spray bottle) — fold it where you want to fold it on the body — you can get it to drape more like you see in the costume reference photos (usually). Once it dries, it should retain the shape. The custom artists did a fantastic job on the hair and repaint. Congrats on fulfilling a grail — that’s always a great feeling.

Wow, beautiful work in every aspect and particular. I can see where all of this talk and skill was headed now. Your work and your commissions have really made your heroes come to life in sixth scale. And great attention to detail. It is a challenge to make garments look and act right in this scale, but yours do a very good job.

It occurs to me that if you want her dress to "drape" in those vertical folds a bit more, you could maybe run a piece of tape or two on the inside, affixing a few long vertical folds wherever you want them. But I admit it is simple as a concept and difficult to pull off just right. The same method could be used to force the garment to be a bit more form-fitting.

I'm actually rewatching the original trilogy tonight to celebrate the 4th, but took a break to check on here as I figured someone would make a 'special post' at some point. lol

That's probably the best Anakin and Padme I've ever seen, even for broken screen photos it's clear to see all the incredible details. And that rooted hair looks phenomenal, if I might ask how much does the artist charge for that quality?

The contrast white and black background photos are probably my favorite, and your fascination with Death and the Maiden concepts makes a lot more sense now.

Amazing! Are you going to use one of those images as a background diorama?

Thanks everyone for the kind words!

Stryker -- Ah, indeed, it is a great feeling, especially since there were many times I was not sure if it would actually come to fruition or not. Re: the dress -- ha, yes... is it technically a nightgown. Only Padme would be so Extra to wear something like that just to sleep in. But at least it makes the fact that she's very clearly not wearing any undergarments here a bit more, er...understandable. ;p

GF - thank you and Stryker for the helpful suggestions regarding the draping of the fabric. Taping it from the inside would probably be more the way to go, as I wouldn't want to risk getting it wet just in case of it leaving water marks. That said, in this case, I feel that the only way to get it to drape completely 'accurately' for the scale would be to use a different type of fabric to begin with -- this fabric is probably just a little bit too thick. When I first started this project over a year ago, I was still in 'doll' mode and wasn't necessarily concerned about things like that. That said, the fabric would probably hang a lot better if the tbleague body had a smaller bust! The crazy-large (and oddly-placed/shaped) bust on the s25b was a bit of a frustration on that score... getting the neckline area to even lay flat against her chest was likewise rather difficult and took a lot of adjusting. Perhaps a few darts in the bust area would also have helped, but then it would have interrupted the streamlined design.

Making it more form-fitting is likewise a tricky thing... the only place the actual movie gown is 'form fitted' to is the bust area, which again is kind of a pain in the arse to work around on this particular tbleague body. Also, Padme is pregnant in this scene, so the dress is specifically meant to not be too form-fitting. It still could be improved on that score, but I decided to just leave it as-is in part because the looser fit of of the gown would make it more ambiguous as to whether this Padme figure is supposed to be pregnant or not. I wanted the figure to be versatile enough to use for pre-RotS scenes, but also to work specifically for recreating film scenes as well.

Ultimately, I'm not too bothered about the drape or lack thereof at this time, and if I do decide I want to improve the overall realism I may just go ahead and re-do the entire gown at some point in the future. For now, though, I'm ok with it as it is. Also, I have several other planned Padme outfits and gowns still to do, so I wanted to just get this one to a point where I could finally consider it completed and move on to other projects.

AlkelAstra - Wow, thanks for the compliment, means a lot! And yes, Josta Brolis [aka JKICustoms] is a very talented and helpful person, and I highly recommend his work. I'm not sure what his current rates are, but when I commissioned this one back in October, they were quite reasonable, especially given the level of work involved -- he re-sculpts the entire back of the head and also both glues and roots the hair directly into the scalp. He is located in Italy and I'm in the UK, so last year during pre-Brexit times it was really convenient to just send the head to him, and shipping was not too expensive. I'm not sure if that would be an issue now, or if shipping to and from other countries would make it not so cost-effective. Also, he's located in Bergamo, which was one of the hardest-hit places during the pandemic in Italy, and last I checked still under pretty tight lockdown. I know he closed his commissions for the rest of the year unfortunately due to this reason, but still feel free to message him and enquire, and I'm sure he'd be happy to help if and when he can. Here's his FB: https://www.facebook.com/jki.customs .

Meryl - Thanks so much! And yes, I do indeed plan to use some kind of nighttime Coruscant cityscape as a background at some point. The lockdown has put some delays on that side of things though, but in future I hope to do a more detailed diorama for these two. : )

Will make separate post soon with more details, stay tuned...

Late to the party, on May the Fifth.

Well that's a lot to process, but it looks like a dream come true which makes me very happy for you.
They look great, some shots look very real, especially Anakin.
Nice and effective draping background, too.
About that Nighttime Coruscant scene, I think you could do great easy silhouette shots in front of a screen with the skyline on it. 

Minor nitpicks: I think the hairline looks too perfect, and the robohand on the last pic looks a bit small on the photo. But we don't know if Luke and Leia already in there, otherwise a great recreation of those concept arts, never seen these. Huge Anakin concept looks interesting too.
My favourites are those nighttime shots.

Haven't watched the movies in a long time, never realized that nice lamp. They had great props, will pay extra attention on my next watch. Even if one doesn't like the newest trilogy, you can still watch it solely for the beautiful props and background characters.

Ovy wrote:Late to the party, on May the Fifth.

Well that's a lot to process, but it looks like a dream come true which makes me very happy for you.
They look great, some shots look very real, especially Anakin.
Nice and effective draping background, too.
About that Nighttime Coruscant scene, I think you could do great easy silhouette shots in front of a screen with the skyline on it. 

Minor nitpicks: I think the hairline looks too perfect, and the robohand on the last pic looks a bit small on the photo. But we don't know if Luke and Leia already in there, otherwise a great recreation of those concept arts, never seen these. Huge Anakin concept looks interesting too.
My favourites are those nighttime shots.

Haven't watched the movies in a long time, never realized that nice lamp. They had great props, will pay extra attention on my next watch. Even if one doesn't like the newest trilogy, you can still watch it solely for the beautiful props and background characters.

No worries about being 'late' my friend -- I posted this quite late myself, so it's all good. Glad you enjoyed these.

That's a good idea about the silhouettes against a screen... I probably couldn't do a full length shot though as I don't have any large screens in my house, only computer screens at the largest (no, I do not own a tv.... eep). But still worth a try! : )

You are absolutely right about the hairline -- it is indeed much too stark. I had originally planned to overcome this via glueing some small amounts of lamb hair against it, but my experiment with that on a spare head failed miserably, so I did not dare try it on the repainted one. If I can figure out a way to make it look better in future, that's definitely another possible improvement I have in mind. But again, for now it doesn't bother me too much, which is all that matters -- no offense to anyone else's opinion, but I make these things to please myself, not to impress people with how realistic they are, though of course if others like the results that's an added bonus. :')

The mech arm looking too small is simply a matter of perspective in that last shot.... and due to my poor photography. ;p Though yes, the HT arm is a teeny bit on the small/slim side, I guess cause the underlying body they use is likewise quite slim in the arm area.

Eventually it's my dream goal to have a modified shirtless Anakin wtih an attached cybernetic arm, but again... thus far that has been beyond my own capabilities. :3

Now for some background details. I'm kind of bad at documenting entire processes, especially since most of the time I don't know if something is going to work or not until it actually does. So this is not a complete 'making of', but I'll share a few details in case anyone is interested.

Hot Toys Anakin w/ custom rooted hair by JKICustoms:

I've been wanting a 'real hair' 1/6 Anakin for many years now... probably ever since I saw this famous (and still seriously awesome!) custom from many years ago:



Now, sadly I didn't have that incredible OOAK sculpt to work with, and had to make the best of the HT sculpt. I'd seen many re-haired HT Anakin figures ever since the figure was first released, and there were some decent ones, but many of them either had the wrong hair colour (too blond or yellow), or were trying too hard to mimic either the screen hairstyle (looked weird with the HT sculpt, which is not the most accurate likeness). Or, they seemed to be attempting to recreate the sculpted hair's style, which again, just ended up looked a bit stiff and either really matted or plastered....usually cause there was too much product of some sort in it to hold it in place.

When I saw JKI's work, I was impressed, especially with the overall finish on the hair. I'd never seen 1/6 hair look like his does. It turns out he uses a mix of liquid wax and water, which dries completely clear and gives the hair a shiny but not too wet or too 'crispy' or flakey appearance, unlike the ones that use lots of hair gel or other types of products. His method is firm enough to hold the style in place, but also forgiving enough that you can alter it a bit if you like.  And mine held its style for several months until I started messing around with it. :3 Because the wax he uses is water based, you can easily just mist the hair and re-style it if you want, which is what I did. However, to get it to stay in place again, you need to add more wax back onto it, which I haven't done yet, hence why my Anakin's hair looks somewhat overly fluffy at the moment. Easily fixed, but I just haven't done it yet for a variety of reasons (also I admit I kind of like the flowing locks, as it suited my Romantic vibe, and also helps to make the HT sculpt look less weirdly narrow).

To give an example, here's a great comparison photo of an original HT Anakin sculpt next to JKICustoms' work when first finished. This is what my Anakin looked like when he was first completed:



Honestly when I first saw this, I gasped out loud.... it was just that breathtaking to me. And yes, I can make him look more or less like this again with just a little bit of wax/water combination, once I get around to it. ;p

JKICustoms FB page: https://www.facebook.com/jki.customs


Padme's gown:


The jewelry/beads and straps:



I've already covered the draping issues with the fabric of the gown in the post above, but even so, I tried to make the best of it. One of the things I really wanted to get 'right' since it was such a focal point of the gown was the jewelry at the neckline and shoulders. There have been many custom doll versions of this gown, but most of them use some kind of seed beads as a stand-in for the pearls. I found this did not convey the right look that I wanted, and was determined to find a better alternative.

In the end, I experimented a bit and found some very tiny silver ball chains that were small enough to give a better impression. I painted them with several extremely thin layers of Lumiere pearlescent acrylic paint mixed with Vallejo airbrush medium, stopping before the paint became too opaque so that some of the shine of the metal underneath would still come through, giving the impression of pearls.

The silver centerpiece is a combination of two heavily modified bead connectors which I cut and reshaped, repainted with Vallejo metallic paint, and glued together. I further decorated the centerpiece with individual 'pearls' that I cut from an extra piece of the repainted ball chain. The hair ornament is likewise a modified bead connector, repainted with the Vallejo metallics.





The straps were another challenge -- most of the previous doll gown iterations of this dress that I'd come across in my searches had used either whole ribbons (doable on the larger Tonner dolls), or had gone with some kind of string or cord. I really wanted to use some kind of flat ribbon, but struggled to find any ribbon in a small enough width, let alone any in the right colour. All my attempts to find some seemed to come up empty, but then sometime before the holidays this past year, I went into a craft shop and just so happened to find a roll with only a tiny bit of ribbon left that was in the exact colour I needed! I snapped it up, and thankfully it was enough to create the straps.

I cut the ribbon so it was much slimmer in width (not 100% exact to the real version, but as close as I could realistically go and still be able to put a needle through it to sew it on), and then used my acrylic fabric medium to keep the edges from fraying.

Then it was time to put it all together. This was by far one of the most tedious and time-consuming parts of the project -- other than perhaps Padme's hair, which I'll go into below -- and the process of arranging everything so it was more or less centered, then hand-stitching it with a tiny needle ended up taking several afternoons to complete. The straps were the most difficult to do, because they required being both evenly spaced and also angled properly around the neck/neckline of the figure itself. The beading was a bit more forgiving and fun to sew, and I used 'invisible' or rather transparent thread to affix the 'pearls'.



Trying it on several times to make sure everything was correctly situated...



In the end I did not permanently fix the strings of pearls in place at the back of the gown, mainly because I realized that this actually would have limited the articulation of the arms. Instead, I created a pair of loops in the back with the invisible thread, and left the pearl/chain strands long enough to thread through and be adjustable, depending on the arm position.  I similarly ended up allowing for some adjustment on the straps in the back as well.

Tibetan lamb hair 'wig' [aka detachable hair piece]:

Prior to sending the headsculpt to be repainted, I had made sure to detach the scalp piece with the factory rooted hair, so that it would then be easier to deal with re-hairing without worrying about messing up the face paint job.

Most of you know what I'm talking about, but just in case this is an example of a different headsculpt (repainted by me) that I'd previously done the same thing to in preparation for painting and rehairing:



I contemplated remaking the back of the sculpt with green stuff or milliput, but after realizing just how much I absolutely LOATHE working with sculpting materials of any kind (other than when there is no other option), I decided to go with another method. Instead, I removed all of the factory hair from the original hairpiece, which involved cutting with scissors and pulling out with tweezers. Then I sanded the plastic scalp and wiped it down with acetone to give it more 'tooth' so that the glue would adhere to it.

But backing up a bit, I'd first attempted several practice runs of gluing hair with this method, and I struggled with figuring out a process that worked for me. I did follow the MoreZMore tutorial, but there were a couple of steps that I felt did not give the results that I wanted. Mainly the actual gluing process itself... I kept ending up with too much glue on the scalp, making the results look too bulky and also being just generally very messy. I also found that rinsing the hair out in a sink does not work for the kind of delicate hairstyle I wanted to do, with fairly tight curls. It kept ending up a tangled, matted mess and it was very frustrating. I came to realize it needed a much lighter touch.

The hairstyle:

Reference pics for the version of this hairstyle I was trying to recreate:







Figuring out the logistics of this in 1/6 scale was no easy task, as it's a little more complicated than it might seem. You can't just glue the hair on in the way hair would normally grow, you have to really think about what direction you're going to be pulling back the hair for that particular style, and making sure that the hair will be adequately covering the scalp, etc. But I plotted it out as best I could, drawing with pencil right onto the sanded scalp piece. In the end, I found that a very slow and very patient approach was the only way I could achieve an even remotely similar appearance. In this case, I did NOT make wefts, I just went directly from cutting to gluing. To begin with, I hand-picked all the curliest, best looking locks from an entire small pelt of tibetan lamb hair, and individually dipped each of the ends into only a small amount of thinned out fabri-tac glue. I then placed each end directly onto the head, pressing it down with the toothpick. After I did a row of this, if it turned out that I had not used enough glue in the initial dipping, I then went back and placed tiny amounts of the glue both on top of of and underneath the locks of hair, where needed. At the front of the hairline, I carved and sanded away a bit of the plastic so it would not get too bulky, and then glued down the hair in a sort of halo around the forehead, long enough to pull back into the curly mass.  Before completely covering with hair from the back, I stopped at the top, and both pinned and glued down the hair ornament directly onto the scalp. Then I continued a bit more so that it was mostly covered, albeit with a lil bit of scalp still exposed. This would be covered by the hair from the front.



I then used thread to pull the hair at the forehead and temples back and then 'pin' it down, as well as to arrange it around the hair ornament.

Afterward, I did NOT run this under tap water, but rather misted it with de-ionized water from a spray bottle. Since I wanted the hair to be a bit shinier, I even added a tiny amount of argan oil to it, before then rinsing it out with another tiny (and i mean TINY) amount of conditioner. All I did was wet the hair via spraying it, and sometimes dripping droplets of water onto it. This lead to a much nicer effect than if it'd gotten it all matted under the tap water.




Finally, I was happy with the results. I trimmed a few stray hairs and then let it fully dry out again, and the results are what you see in the pics. The locks remained separate and less tangled, and retained a bit more curl. It was a much more time consuming method than the MoreZMore tutorial, but it was what this particular hairstyle called for.





Now that I've figured out a process that works for Padme's rather elaborate hairstyles, I'm really excited to attempt more!    


Ovy - you mentioned the drape-y backdrop....thanks for noticing. :')  I don't have behind the scenes pics of this, and it's currently covered up with a bunch of tissue paper so as to keep spiders off it, lol, but I'll quickly explain what I did with that. Originally, I wasn't planning to share these figures until I had a proper backdrop or even an elaborate diorama for them, but I realized it would be a really long time still before I could realistically do that, so I wanted at least to do something that would give the basic impression of Padme's apartment. For the floor, I used marble contact paper adhered to an old spare Ikea bookcase shelf. To create the impression of 'pillars' I used a sort of stiff but sheer set of net window curtains, which I draped over a large canvas picture and formed into shape. I then draped a dove-grey sheer scarf as the 'curtains', and used trimmed-down gold bookmark tassles as the curtain tie-backs. Of course it's not the greatest, but for an emergency lockdown pandemic backdrop, I was actually pleasantly surprised by how it turned out.

Thanks again everyone for all the comments and suggestions. Yes, there are a great many mistakes, errors, and flaws to be found, and believe me... my perfectionist-self is painfully aware of every one of them. There is always tons of room for improvement, but there also comes a point where I feel myself reaching my limitations and needing to wind down a project lest I burn out and/or mess up something in my never-ending quest to make it 'more perfect'. So, for now, I'm happy with how these turned out. I will definitely revisit them in the future with further adjustments and photoshoots, but in the meantime I need to take a break and work on my next 'grail' figures.... ;D

Congratulations on completing your "Grail" project. I can see that you put in an enormous amount of work into it, so it must be very satisfying to gotten where you are. Fantastic work on Padmé's outfit! and really the whole ball of wax.

A great many mistakes? Hardly. I think you put a ton of thought, experiment, and experience into this, not to mention patience and outlay. And it has paid off very well, as both figures look excellent. Very impressive work with the pearl strings, straps, bling, and hair, and equally impressive skill. I also appreciate your commitment to allowing as much articulation as possible and finding innovative ways of doing so (e.g., the pearl strings). Thanks for sharing your process (and your creations). And keep those spiders at bay!

GubernatorFan wrote:A great many mistakes? Hardly. I think you put a ton of thought, experiment, and experience into this, not to mention patience and outlay. And it has paid off very well, as both figures look excellent. Very impressive work with the pearl strings, straps, bling, and hair, and equally impressive skill. I also appreciate your commitment to allowing as much articulation as possible and finding innovative ways of doing so (e.g., the pearl strings). Thanks for sharing your process (and your creations). And keep those spiders at bay!

What he said....ditto from me.

BEAUTIFUL work all around! <3

Rooted natural fibre is my absolute favourite because it just adds so much realism and is much easier to style than slippery synthetic stuff!

'I wanted to show that this poor guy is trapped by shadows, and she is stuck in the light, and the hand that reaches out to touch her isn't even a human hand anymore.'

Oh that’s such a heartbreaking quote but sums the situation up so well! (and yesssss, robo hands ftwww! I’m planning a cyborg custom of my own at some point soon if I can get the right parts...)
I must confess, based only on the films (I never got round to watching the clone wars to my eternal shame) I never understood what Padme saw in Anakin, but they do make a handsome couple!

Really great process S. Your commitment to Padme's outfit and hair really paid off. And don't worry too much about the "flaws" or "errors". I'm an OCD type when it comes to that stuff, myself. And most of the time I find that if I don't mention it, and no one else notices, than there's no point in getting to worried over it (Not that trying for one's best isn't the way things should be done).

That OSR photo is astounding, especially the hand pose (is that the actual figure's hand and not someone's real hand photoshopped in?) lol. I tried zooming in to see more details but the resolution doesn't seem to be very high, unfortunately.

And yeah, dampening the hair really does make a big difference. That is an interesting trick with the wax/water combo, haven't heard that one before. When you say 'liquid wax' is there a certain premade brand, or are you talking about just any candle wax and stirring it vigorously with water to create the compound? I'm trying to find a longer-lasting method because halfway through shoots my lamb hair dries out again and I have to stop to moisturize it.

ThePhotogsBlog wrote:Congratulations on completing your "Grail" project.  I can see that you put in an enormous amount of work into it, so it must be very satisfying to gotten where you are.  Fantastic work on Padmé's outfit! and really the whole ball of wax.  

Thank you, good sir! It does indeed feel great to have this one finally come to 'life'. I hope that everyone can at some point experience creating/finding/commissioning or otherwise acquiring their own 'grails'. :')

GubernatorFan wrote:
A great many mistakes? Hardly. I think you put a ton of thought, experiment, and experience into this, not to mention patience and outlay. And it has paid off very well, as both figures look excellent. Very impressive work with the pearl strings, straps, bling, and hair, and equally impressive skill. I also appreciate your commitment to allowing as much articulation as possible and finding innovative ways of doing so (e.g., the pearl strings). Thanks for sharing your process (and your creations). And keep those spiders at bay!

Thanks so much, GF. I really would have been at a loss as to how to accomplish this without the help and advice of the people here on this forum, so you are all a part of this too. <3  I especially appreciate all the work that you, Ovy, and so many others have done over the last year or so to help de-mystify the re-hairing process. This is something that confounded me for a long time, and which had been holding up a number of my WIP projects, so I'm glad to understand it a little better now. Of course, the only real way one can truly grasp that kind of thing is to attempt/practice it several times oneself, but I still appreciate the sharing of knowledge that goes on here. Now that I have a bit more confidence in that area, I'm looking forward to experimenting further.

And lol, the spiders are very determined. The area where I do my crafts and also where I have a table set up for photoshoots is in the conservatory (aka 'sun-room'), as it's the only place that gets really good natural daylight. But it also seems to be favourite home for many tiny spiders. I try to keep on top of their activities, but pretty much every morning I wake up and find a new web somewhere. So, I just cover everything up when it's not in use, either with bubble wrap or sheets of acid-free tissue paper. It helps protect from dust and floating dog-hairs as well, so maybe it's not such a bad thing. ;p

Stryker2011 wrote:
Really great process S. Your commitment to Padme's outfit and hair really paid off. And don't worry too much about the "flaws" or "errors". I'm an OCD type when it comes to that stuff, myself. And most of the time I find that if I don't mention it, and no one else notices, than there's no point in getting to worried over it (Not that trying for one's best isn't the way things should be done).

Thank you -- appreciate the kind words and encouragement as always. <3 You are right, and I'm always my own worst critic. Trying to be better about it, and make myself 'stop' before overworking things out of obsessiveness ....as that is usually when I mess up the most! :3

AlKelAstra91 wrote:That OSR photo is astounding, especially the hand pose (is that the actual figure's hand and not someone's real hand photoshopped in?) lol. I tried zooming in to see more details but the resolution doesn't seem to be very high, unfortunately.

Right??? I've been in love with that figure for years, haha. I'd gotten so used to drooling over it that when the Hot Toys Anakin was announced, I recall being a little disappointed it didn't look more like that one. :p

And oops, my bad, I must have posted a low res image. It might be a photoshop, but seeing as the person sculpted the head themselves, they may have sculpted their own hand for him too...

AlKelAstra91 wrote:And yeah, dampening the hair really does make a big difference. That is an interesting trick with the wax/water combo, haven't heard that one before. When you say 'liquid wax' is there a certain premade brand, or are you talking about just any candle wax and stirring it vigorously with water to create the compound? I'm trying to find a longer-lasting method because halfway through shoots my lamb hair dries out again and I have to stop to moisturize it.

Believe it or not, the type of wax he uses is basically transparent/clear liquid floor wax! He suggests using a 50/50 mix of the liquid wax with water, applying it via one of those little needle-nosed plastic dropper bottles, and then styling it with a paintbrush. Best to apply this after misting the hair first with water from a spray bottle, and then letting it sort of dry halfway. Once the hair is styled, it should hold for quite a while, basically unless and until you then re-wet it and re-style it again.

Lynkhart wrote:BEAUTIFUL work all around! <3

Rooted natural fibre is my absolute favourite because it just adds so much realism and is much easier to style than slippery synthetic stuff!

Ahh, thank you so much! Means a lot, coming from you! :'') I remember last year bugging you about the re-hairing stuff...thanks for being so patient about it.  And I completely agree -- I was super intimidated about working with it at first (mainly because I'm absolutely crap at even styling my own hair, lol), but now that I'm getting the hang of it I just absolutely love it, and especially how much you can do with it!

Lynkhart wrote:Oh that’s such a heartbreaking quote but sums the situation up so well! Sad (and yesssss, robo hands ftwww! I’m planning a cyborg custom of my own at some point soon if I can get the right parts...)

Indeed. It really got to me as well. ;-;    And ooooh, I'm looking forward to seeing your cyborg custom! I'm sure it will be incredible, like everything you do. :')

Lynkhart wrote:
I must confess, based only on the films (I never got round to watching the clone wars to my eternal shame) I never understood what Padme saw in Anakin, but they do make a handsome couple!

Ha, it's ok... I can understand where you're coming from on that. My own view of them took a while to develop, and only after being away from Star Wars for a long time and then coming back to it again years later. So I totally get it if they're not to everyone's tastes....after all, things do end so tragically between them, and that alone is difficult for some to get past.

That being said, there are a couple of things I would comment on in regard to that: the first being that, on an in-story level, I think they do work even 'as-is', but there is a pretty crucial deleted scene from Attack of the Clones that helps make a little more sense of it, especially in terms of what is going on from Padme's perspective. It's a scene where, when they first arrive on Naboo (*prior* to things heating up between them at the lake resort), Padme visits her family for dinner -- her parents, as well as her older sister, who has several young children. Anakin, being her bodyguard at that point, of course accompanies her. During that time, he meets her parents, they absolutely love him, and he is attentive and interested in hearing all about Padme's past humanitarian works. He also is very warm and friendly to her sister's kids. And it's revealed Padme wants kids of her own someday, and well... you get the picture. It's a pretty important scene, and is still considered canon as it made it into the original novelization back in the day, but I do think omitting it from the theatrical cut of the film ended up giving a bit of an erroneous (and perhaps even somewhat negative) impression of how things were panning out between them. Whereas, just taking even that one little scene into account adds a great deal to their story. It makes things more *emotionally* intimate between them from the start (he's already been accepted into her family! He's nice to her nieces! He's interested in her life and career!), rather than just overwhelmingly physically intimate (which it is too, lol). It also provides a very heartwrenching contrast with the scene later on Tatooine where Anakin and Padme sit down with the Lars family, with his mother still missing after being captured by the Sand People/Tusken Raiders. Again, it highlights the theme of them being very opposite, and yet still oddly complimentary (in an ideal sense of their potential of how they could be/should be, if not how things end up). At the very least, you can sort of see what it is that they want/need in each other from the start. And the desperation of their love in those moments likewise makes more sense, too.

Thematically, and on a 'bigger picture' level, to me their relationship makes perfect sense and, imo, forms the absolute crux of the whole saga.  In terms of what they represent symbolically and their roles in the story, as well as the various mythological allusions to be found therein.  Examining Attack of the Clones provides the basis for my view of them as a sort of Hades and Persephone.... the scenes of Padme in the field of wildflowers on her water-planet teeming with life, then going away with Anakin to his desert home planet (even being transported in a 'chariot' of sorts at one point), which turns out to be a place of sorrow, loss, and death. On Naboo, they even have that moment where they share a piece of 'forbidden fruit'. Padme's costuming is very consistent with this as well, with her elaborate gowns making her look either like some kind of ethereal springtime goddess and/or like the Queen of the Underworld. When she says the oft-mocked line on Geonosis ,'I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life', 'cheesy' or not, it fits perfectly into the overarching themes of their tale. ;D

A few years back, I wrote a big long meta about this subject, based on my analysis of the 'shadow hug' scene on Tatooine:

https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/post/160355356352/anidala-week-2017-day-2-favourite

There are even further aspects to this -- for instance, in the Clone Wars, there is a bit more in-depth exploration of not only Anakin's character (which makes him a lot more understandable), but also of Padme's political career, and how it all sort of interacts with their relationship, and to me it becomes clear that they really are meant as the 'Union of the Opposites' of the magnum opus. Life/Death, Fire/Water, Creation/Destruction, even their respective roles as senator vs. military leader, and so on. And that this isn't inherently a negative thing about them, but rather places them as complimentary opposites, whose story only ends the way it does due to Sidious' machinations, rather than something inherently 'bad' about them. It's telling that they first meet as innocent children, and that they meet PRIOR to Palpatine exerting any kind of influence on Anakin. It's my personal view that we are meant to see a potential scenario in which what could have/should have happened is that Padme would have become Chancellor and Anakin would have been her 'enforcer'/protector, instead.

I wrote a bit more about the 'union of opposites' side of things here:

https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/post/156498487532/the-far-bright-center-nothing-frustrates-me

and here (my comment is the one at the bottom):

https://the-far-bright-center.tumblr.com/post/166372112467/this-this-scene-right-here-is-solid-evidence-as-to


This artwork sums it up perfectly:

Oh whaaaat?! That scene sounds like it would have been such a valuable addition, I wonder why on Earth they cut it?! I wish they’d have cut out some pointless CGI bits instead.

Examining Attack of the Clones provides the basis for my view of them as a sort of Hades and Persephone.... the scenes of Padme in the field of wildflowers on her water-planet teeming with life, then going away with Anakin to his desert home planet [even being transported in a 'chariot' of sorts at one point], which turns out to be a place of sorrow and death. On Naboo, they even have that moment where they share a piece of 'forbidden fruit'. Padme's costuming is very consistent with this as well, with her elaborate gowns making her look either like some kind of ethereal springtime goddess and/or like the Queen of the Underworld.

But yeah, I can definitely see what you mean about them being kind of complementary opposites, it makes sense when you think of it in that way. I think much of my disliking of the ship was that arrogance is one of my least favourite traits in a person, and Anakin being so cocky and career driven (if becoming a Jedi counts as a career, lol) all the time, and his obsessive nature really made me question what she could see in him when she’s so fiercely committed to the aforementioned humanitarian works etc and all around seems to be far more pragmatic and mature than he is. (Though I suppose being elected queen as a teenager would do that to you lol) I get that in the third film especially he’s kind of unravelling mentally thanks to Palpatine’s meddling, so that’s understandable.

Honestly though it’s been years since I watched the prequels properly! XD I’ll need to binge them again at some point and see if they help purge RoS out of my system because I’m still not over how disappointed I was in that whole experience. D:

Insofar as I can claim any credit, you're welcome; but in the end it's all you.
This is some in-depth analysis of the saga, with plenty of reference to serious literary studies. And interesting info on the deleted scenes/background. And you're right, perfect choice of artwork.

The Anakin rooted hair looks impressive.

It's my personal view that we are meant to see a potential scenario in which what could have/should have happened is that Padme would have become Chancellor and Anakin would have been her 'enforcer'/protector, instead.

I am not sure if I remember correctly, but was it you too with the 'alternative Anakin' concept of an aged Anakin who didn't become a machine? 
Padme as Chancellor would be cool too, although the whole story would lack a bad guy then. Maybe those spoiled Brats Luke and Leia would become a problem.

Also, as you are the specialist on the subject: What I never understood, did Palatine have a Dark Cyborg costume prepared in case Anakin loses the high ground and some limbs and falls into lava? On a remote...'Lava-Planet'? I liked how he slowly starts to get into Darth Fashion, from brown with black leather vest to cyborg arm, later black Cape and that Darth neckpiece thing from Clone Wars. But that Vader Costume felt quite rushed. And I forgot why he called himself Vader in the first place. Anyway, like Lynkhart, I think I have to give it all another watch, after reading your essays of course.

Speaking of, I haven't read the blog entries yet but looking forward to it, I like reading your walls of text for some reason. I think it's the passion involved.
Did you publish any science stuff too that can be read online?

Regarding hair rooting, I really love how much we learn from each other. Might make us targets for assassins of the Hair rooting guild, as they want to keep it a secret, but that's worth it. This whole hobby was space magic to me before I got into it, all those weird little shops and materials and techniques. And now, for example, I totally enjoy how ukshaun exponentially finds new solutions for all those details that have to be made, finding materials and parts etc.

And about that perfectionism OCD stuff nobody sees but oneself... don't get me started. Life is pain. xD

**Before proceeding any further, I should probably add a disclaimer here that, with regards to the 'Sequels' films, I've only ever seen TFA. I loathed it that much that I refused to watch the rest of those movies and still have miraculously managed to avoid spoilers for them, and would like to keep it that way. Likewise, I have been avoiding pretty much all Disney SW-related news and output in recent years (from early 2018 onward) no matter how 'good' or 'ok' people tell me it is, simply because TFA damaged me that much that I can never trust Disney with SW ever again, and I have found that paying attention to any of it just ends up leaving me too stressed to enjoy the parts of SW that I still love. Now, I *did* enjoy Rogue One and parts of Rebels, which I viewed prior to fully 'boycotting' Disney content, but please note that I haven't watched, read, or even looked at anything else since then, and have zero plans to do so. Yes, that even includes the more recent stuff that people have raved about -- I honestly do not care. Other than the few exceptions already stated, I'm a Lucas-era fan only. One of the MAIN reasons I started making custom figures in the first place was so that I could create my *own* Star Wars content separate from the Disney nonsense, and be free to enjoy it in peace.

@GF -- thanks again for the kind words, and for checking out my musings. As you can see, I'm rather passionate about the subject.

@ukshaun -- Thank you! Glad you like it!

@Ovy -- First off, appreciate the compliments on the 'meta' posts --- I am an incorrigible academic and live this for this kind of meta-analysis. :3 Sadly I don't have any scientific texts for you to peruse.... I am more of an art history/literary type.  And oh, hmm, I'm not sure if it was me that had that alternate idea or not, but either way, thanks for thinking of me in relation to it. :'D And re: Palpatine on Mustafar - lol, I don't think that's quite what is supposed to have occurred there. The story specifically goes out of the way to show that biotechnology like that was starting to become a lot more prevalent, not only via Anakin already having a cybernetic arm, but also through the character of General Grievious, who required frequent 'upgrades' throughout the Clone Wars-era. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the entire purpose of Grievious' character is to show how this kind of cybernetic technology was quite literally already right at their fingertips. And if you recall in the Clone Wars, there's even an episode where we see the inside of Grievious' 'lair', and how he has a medical droid and facility dedicated solely to giving him various new cybernetic parts all the time. Also, if I recall correctly, by the time of RotS, Palpatine already runs some kind of biotech facility on Coruscant (can't remember if it's a secret Sith one or a more 'above board' one, lol). And on Mustafar, which is where Vader is 'built', there were already several droid-building facilities (I believe these are supposed to be run by a 'heat-resistant droid-mining' guild or something like that, but again, I don't always recall the specifics). Either way, I don't see how it's all that surprising that Palpatine/Sidous could have come up with a new suit for Vader so quickly at the end of the film. Also, the design of it is meant to be similar enough to Anakin's 'General Skywalker' Clone Wars-style tunic + armour that it would make sense for this to be how Vader was likewise 'designed'.

@Lynkhart -- Yes, sometimes I honestly forget that the deleted scene is not more well-known! It's such a part of my own headcanon that I forget it's even a deleted scene and not actually in the movie, lol.  Admittedly, I also frequently use the Prequels novelizations as references for creating fanworks, and there are obviously quite a lot more details in those than in the films, so sometimes my views are influenced by that as well. Especially the Revenge of the Sith novelization by Matthew Stover, which I'll say a bit more about below.

Again, I definitely understand some of your hang-ups, and please don't worry if you can't quite embrace the whole thing to the same extent I do (I'm a pretty intense fangirl about it as you can see ).

Regarding Anakin's characterization: Yes, he can be rather prideful at times, and yes, he can seem overly focused on his career 'advancement' (especially in RotS film, as you note). However, there is always a lot more to it than that, and this is where I think the Aotc and RotS films perhaps don't quite go into enough background detail. TPM does a great job of present Anakin as a thoroughly good person who starts off as an innocent, pure-hearted little boy who just wants to help others. But by the later movies, there starts to be a lot more focus on Anakin's tragic flaws, sometimes to the point that his good qualities (he *does* still have them!) don't get explored as thoroughly. (Another reason why that AotC deleted scene is so important.)

There's a part of the RotS novelization when Obi-Wan and Anakin are saying farewell for the last time, prior to Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. As he does in the RotS film, Anakin apologies to Obi-Wan, saying that he hasn't been appreciative enough of Obi-Wan's training, that he'd been arrogant, and that he was sorry. And likewise, just as in the film, Obi-Wan reassures him, saying that he's proud of the man Anakin has become. He then elaborates further:

"I’m not speaking of your power, Anakin, but of your heart. The greatness in you is a greatness of spirit. Courage and generosity, compassion and commitment. These are your virtues," Obi-Wan said gently. "You have done great things, and I am very proud of you."

So, while the AotC and RotS films omit some additional, important details at times, PT novelizations as well as the TCW animated series go a long way toward demonstrating both his positive and 'flawed' qualities, and do so in a way that makes him and his driving motivations lot more understandable.

In the RotS novelization, we are introduced to the concept of Anakin as 'The Hero With No Fear':

"This is Anakin Skywalker:

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace. He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it. HoloNet features call him the Hero With No Fear. And why not? What should he be afraid of?

Except—

Fear lives inside him anyway, chewing away the firewalls around his heart."

There is also the haunting and evocative theme running through that novel of 'the dragon of that dead star', referring to an old legend that children on Tatooine tell each about creatures that live inside the hearts of dying suns. It whispers into Anakin's ear, stoking his deepest, darkest fears:

“The dragon reminds him, every night, of how he held his dying mother in his arms, of how she had spent her last strength to say I knew you would come for me, Anakin.
The dragon reminds him, every night, that someday he will lose Obi-Wan. He will lose Padmé. Or they will lose him.
      All things die, Anakin Skywalker. Even stars burn out.”

"That is the kind of fear that lives inside Anakin Skywalker: the dragon of that dead star. It is an ancient voice within his heart that whispers all things die…"

It starts to become apparent that the weight of being considered 'the best' only serves to wear him down, and he feels nothing but anxiety, since despite his considerable prowess as a warrior and Force-wielder, he still does not have the power to prevent the loss of the ones he loves:

His real fear, in a universe where even stars die, is that being the best will never be quite good enough.

This is the tragic flaw of Anakin Skywalker.... his immense and overpowering Fear of Loss. And heartwrenchingly, even his quest for power is not just something to stoke his arrogance, but stems rather from the fact that, haunted as he is by the horrific death of his mother in AotC, he believes that if he becomes 'the most powerful Jedi ever', maybe, just maybe he could be powerful enough to protect the ones he loves. Powerful enough to keep them from dying. (The novel also explains that part of his wish to become a Jedi Master is driven by the fact that Jedi Masters are the only ones allowed access to certain parts of the Jedi Archives, and he is convinced there is some secret knowledge contained there which will help him to save Padme, which again makes it a lot more understandable why he is so tempted by Palpatine's offer to reveal secret knowledge to him.)

Anakin's Fear of Loss is part of his greater struggle to accept mortality, and in some ways this is also a struggle with his Faith (aka, the Jedi religion). Because part of the Jedi Code's mantra is 'Death, yet the Force'. But this -- the promise that death is not the 'end' -- is something Anakin seems to have difficulty accepting or believing (and is something he only seems to finally accept at the end of RotJ, with his words to Luke, who observes that his father will die without his mask: 'nothing can stop that now').  Possibly this is due to being brought into the Jedi Order quite late, when he was already old enough to have developed this type of fear. (After all, he'd already spent a great chunk of his childhood as a slave -- likewise, another reason why he is perhaps so sensitive to the fact that others are called 'Jedi Masters', but he is not one himself yet.) The irony being that the course he is on leads him to become the embodiment of death...both to ones he was supposed to protect, and to the galaxy itself. He feared Death and so Death he became. As Vader, it's as though he has now in fact become 'the dragon of that dead star' (aka, of the 'Death Star'). And again, the tragic irony that it is only as Vader -- once he no longer has anything left to lose -- that he finally becomes 'The Hero With No Fear'.

Just as the RotS novel brings more depth to Anakin's emotional state and underlying motivations, the Clone Wars' portrayal of his character is likewise a lot more balanced, in that that his undeniable flaws are more often than not tempered in some way by his likeable and redeeming qualities. Sure he can still be arrogant at times, but via his 'Skyguy' persona, we see much more of that sort of boyish charm and fun-loving, cocky pilot personality that we were introduced to with 'Little Ani' in The Phantom Menace (a highly underrated SW movie, imo). The series also explores his close relationships with several other characters in much greater depth, my personal favourite being his warm and teasing, but also deeply emotional and touching mentor-student dynamic with his erstwhile apprentice, Ahsoka Tano. I'm a huge fan of the Prequels these days (to the point I can freely admit that the Prequels-era is my favourite SW era, blasphemous as that might be to some ), but I am aware that they may fall short in certain areas. (ETA: For a while now I've felt that the biggest issue with the Prequels was simply the fact that there was actually too much story that needed to be told from that era to actually do it justice in just three movies.) And, imo, this is an aspect to Anakin's character that benefits greatly from the Clone Wars' exploration, if for no other reason than to show that he truly does have a genuinely heartfelt and caring side to him, and that before he fell to the Dark Side he had many meaningful interpersonal relationships, rather than the impression of him in the latter two PT films of just being this somewhat brooding fellow who didn't care about anyone but Padme. ;p It helps to add even more weight to what Obi-Wan says to Luke in RotJ regarding 'the good man that was your father' [emphasis mine].

So of course, I am aware of and acknowledge certain shortcomings of the Prequels, but in my opinion, the underlying story presented therein—the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, and, along with him, the apocalyptic destruction of the Republic and the entire Jedi Order—is extremely compelling, and a tale well-worth telling.

Here is someone who starts out his life as a slave, a young boy simply wishing to fly away ... yearning for the freedom of the stars. A young boy with fear and anger already inside him due to the hardship and injustice of his circumstances (and later, his constant worry for his mother), but still largely innocent.  A young boy supposedly taken away from slavery (and, at the same time, his mother)…only to end up serving a corrupt Republic in an unwinnable war, and a Jedi Order that had by this time become overly dogmatic and blinded to certain dark realities in its midst. A Jedi Order that had lost its way by becoming embroiled in political happenings and subservient to the military ‘needs’ of the Republic. A Jedi Order that was doomed the moment they allowed themselves to become soldiers instead of protectors. Supporters of perpetual war, instead of keepers of the peace. A Jedi Order that allowed itself to become slaves of the Republic, subject to the Senate’s every agenda and the Chancellor’s every whim, instead of free agents.

Anakin’s tale is so tragic because he believes he is going from (literal) slavery to freedom, to then fighting *for* the (physical and ideological) freedom of others during the Clone Wars ... when in reality he is merely exchanging one set of chains for another, until he becomes fully imprisoned once more in the form of Vader.

Many dismiss Anakin as a character at first glance without taking a deeper look into his story, and what makes him the tragic hero -- yes, hero -- that he is (by that I refer to the 'good man' he is prior his fall, as well as to his ultimate redemption in RotJ). I find it helpful to understand that Skywalker saga is intended to be viewed, overall, as a myth. Infused as it is with elements of heroic epics and greek drama, it is a distinctively older type of tale, played out on a galactic level. There is, therefore, something beautifully Romantic about this story, and the more I have thought about it, the more I have come to love this extremely misunderstood character—this deeply-loving, tragically-flawed, all-too human god trapped inside a machine.

Wow! That is quite the analysis. And I wish I had your passion for ALL (or at least MOST) of the Star Wars saga.

As an OT guy who disliked the prequels (and sequels) on the same level that you dislike the sequels — I can’t help but think how Lucas himself allowed his own story to get away from him. He didn’t really enjoy being a Director, or a Writer, but more an Overseer of a project that he created. Hence the reason he turned it over to others for ESB and ROTJ. I won’t go in to all the reasons I disliked the prequels, but I will point out that Vader was never supposed to be anything more than a second-fiddle bad-guy — who, if I remember correctly — was supposed to be killed off in ESB —just like Han Solo was. But, he was wildly popular, and thus became the “face” , so-to-speak, of the franchise. He was never meant to be Luke’s father — if you watch ANH everything is laid out pretty clearly that Vader and Luke’s father were two different people. Lawrence Kasdan came up with the idea of the dramatic reveal of Vader’s “true identity,” and Lucas was so pissed when he found out during the dailies, he wanted to fire LK, but the Studio (the guy’s paying the bills) liked it, so it stuck — forcing some quick rewrites for the end of the film.

Return of the Jedi is a whole other jumble of strange changes — which is what makes it the weakest entry in the OT. Luke and Leia were never meant to be brother and sister — but due to Harrison Ford’s popularity, and their ability to get him back — they had to come up with some strange way to put an end to the (now awkward) love triangle. Which also makes the Force VERY inconsistent if Vader is supposed to be strong with the Dark Side. He and Luke could sense each other, but all the time Vader spent torturing Leia in ANH, the moron couldn’t sense that she was also strong with the Force, AND his own daughter...?! Then there’s the completely moronic “From a certain point of view” speech by Ben to Luke about flat out lying about who Vader was. Alec Guinness complained about how a lot of the last minute re-writes made no sense, and he was right. I also think Lucas had had enough by the time ROTJ rolled around, that he was ready to wrap it up — which is why a second Death Star so quickly built after ANH — seems ridiculous (where do they get the money and resources to build something that massive so quickly? The destruction of the first one had to be a huge financial loss.)

There was always meant to be 9 movies, but the sequel trilogy was supposed to be Luke’s continuing adventures in his battle against the Emperor (who was supposed to be the main villain), with the last movie having the final meeting between the two. The prequels should have been the Jedi Order story — which they sort of are — (including Obi-Wan, and both Annakin and Vader as two separate characters) — — but Lucas had allowed his own hands to be tied during the making of the OT, that suddenly Vader is elevated to tragic hero — when the real tragic hero is, and always should have been, Luke (who’s story is nothing more than a retelling of King Arthur). The prequels, in that regard, completely negate Luke’s story, relegating him to supporting player in the story of Darth Vader, and the sequels absolutely killed it — by giving us possibly the worst Mary Sue in all of cinema.

Anyway, that’s my analysis (and rip even) of the OT’s flaws, and the flaws of its connection with the rest of the movies. It’s not meant to belittle your head-canon, which I actually think is pretty cool. When I was a kid, I had my own imaginary adventures with Han, Chewie, Luke and Leia —particularly when I was playing with those original 3.75” figures.

Fascinating and in-depth analysis. It is sensible enough, for sure, and I appreciated these ideas. I just sometimes wonder how much of the "source" evidence can really be relied upon. Given what we know of Lucas' saga development and the seemingly infinite, yes insufficient amount of retconing that has been applied to various installments, one might suspect that the real thing is not fully-developed or fully-thought out. But if so, how much can we rely on trying to make sense of it with such sophisticated tools, or would it just be over-interpretation. Either way, the thing about art is that it is in the eye of the beholder. And if it has inspired us to have these conversations and to create these figures, environments, etc, it has probably succeeded -- at least to some degree.

Stryker2011 wrote:Wow! That is quite the analysis. And I wish I had your passion for ALL (or at least MOST) of the Star Wars saga.

As an OT guy who disliked the prequels (and sequels) on the same level that you dislike the sequels — I can’t help but think how Lucas himself allowed his own story to get away from him...

Agreed. Like Mark, I'm an OT guy. And while I do believe it was possible to make the Prequels better, I worry that they would have been an uphill battle no matter what (we knew how they would have ended, more or less, from the start). I'm always reminded of a line from Six Degrees of Separation, something to this effect:

Art Connoisseur to his kids' 2nd grade art teacher:
"Why are all your students geniuses? ... Matisses, every one! You've made my child a Matisse! ... What is your secret?"

Art Teacher to Art Connoisseur/Dealer:
"I don't have any secret. I just know when to take the drawings away from them."

There was no one who knew when (or was allowed) to take the films away from him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzzcHhFa66Q (after 0:36)

ETA: Edited to include some additional sources.


Stryker -- First of all, I do indeed know the feeling of what it's like to struggle with enjoying Star Wars these days, so my heart goes out to you. I also completely understand that everyone's view of Star Wars is going to be very different, especially in this day and age. And I accept the fact that what 'Star Wars' means for some people is completely different to what it means to me. Everyone's views on SW greatly depend on what 'era' people were first introduced to it, and at what age, as well as each individual's approach to fiction and media.

When it comes to the era in which we were respectively introduced to Star Wars, you obviously have the perspective of someone who was around to have seen it from before the OT was even completed, and thus you will inevitably have a different view of it than someone like me, who grew up as a kid in the '90s watching the OT as a whole, completed story. I was introduced to SW by my father, who is a very spiritual person, and he greatly emphasized the themes of redemption in it to me from the start. So that too forms a great deal of my understanding and emotional investment --- it was never 'just' a sci-fi/space adventure movie for me, but rather a cathartic and spiritually moving experience.

And regarding differing approaches, from what I've observed about your own approach, you often seem to look at media with more of a 'behind the scenes' view, and like to know about actors and the goings on behind the scenes, and I'm guessing your view of some films may be coloured by that lense. And that's fine -- that's how you approach it.  When it comes to my own approach to fiction in general, however, I am rather the opposite... I tend to avoid knowing or seeing behind the scenes stuff like the plague, and prefer to analyze things based on my own 'readings' of texts. As a medievalist, I guess this makes sense, since 'death of the author' is pretty much unavoidable in that field, given the fact that many medieval authors are unknown, or at least much less detail is known about the specifics of their lives than what is known about creators of fiction these days. But even so,  this is just my own personal preference even for contemporary media, as I greatly dislike knowing about specific things that actors or directors have stated, since it tends to only just take me out of the story. And for me, what is most important is complete and total immersion in a piece of fiction that I enjoy. I like to be able to 'live' inside fictional worlds and stories, as this helps me analyze and appreciate them on their own basis, and on much deeper and more meaningful levels than if I were only focused on behind-the-scenes drama. Knowing too much about the 'reality' behind things just completely ruins the illusion and any hope of immersion for me. Others may differ and be able to compartmentalize, but that's just not how my brain functions.  Also, as someone who has spent a long time involved in 'fandom' in general, I very strongly believe in the idea that, as a fan, my interpretation of a work is just as valid as the creator's view of it. At the very least, I feel perfectly justified in making my own interpretations of things, without feeling the need to be beholden to what might or might not be authorial intent.

All that being said, when it comes to Star Wars, it's not been possible to avoid knowing at least a little bit here and there, simply due to the nature and longevity of it, so I do have some thoughts on that. First of all, let me state that I am a rarity amongst SW fans in that I'm actually a fan of George Lucas and very much respect his vision for Star Wars as a story. Regardless of whatever flaws might exist in some of his execution at times, I am talking here about my views on Lucas' saga as it stands, aka the Prequels x Original Trilogy, and which in my view form one complete and compelling story.

So, Lucas' 'intent' or lack thereof with certain aspects of the Original Trilogy is not really my point here at all. With regards to my meta-analysis in the previous posts, his intentions when making the *OT* are completely moot, since he made the Prequels (and Clone Wars) in the time since then, and made them specifically in order to 'inform' our understanding of his vision for the saga *as a whole*. But since both you and GF brought it up, I'll try to explain my thoughts a bit....

Sure, a ton of the making of the OT was basically a 'flying by the seat of pants' type thing, with GL often making up and/or going along with stuff as he went. But by the end of the OT, with RotJ, the story did have a coherent arc, especially for the way Luke's story panned out -- and this was highly influenced by Joseph Campbell's comparative mythology studies, and the concept of the Hero's Journey. As Robert Clotworthy notes in the 2004 documentary Empire of Dreams:

"With his galactic fairytale, Lucas hoped to reinvent the classic genre. Among his influences, were the writings of scholar and educator Joseph Campbell, in which he explored the origins of myths and world religions.

What Joseph Campbell was interested in, was to see the connections between myths, the myths of different cultures, to try to find out what were the threads that tied all these disparate cultures together."

Lucas was interested in this as well, it seems, and even consulted Campbell directly regarding certain elements of the original saga. Campbell, in turn, would later describe Lucas as his 'best student'.

My own awareness of the comparative mythology influence in Star Wars began all the way back in the late '90s when I read the book Star Wars: The Magic of Myth by Mary Henderson (published for the 20th anniversary of ANH in 1997 to go along with the Smithsonian traveling exhibition of the same name). This contained both written analysis and also lots of interesting concept art and images all showing George Lucas' many and varied influences that went into creating the Original Trilogy -- everything from Flash Gordon comics, to WWII and other historical eras, to yes, various aspects of world religions and mythology. In the book were also many quotes from Joseph Campbell's works, specifically included because of their influence on the story.

As an example, here's a quote from Campbell which can be applied to the moment when Luke removes Vader's mask [emphasis mine]:

“The hero…for a moment rises to a glimpse of the source. He beholds the face of the father, understands—and the two are atoned…. For the son who has grown really to know the father, the agonies of the ordeal are readily borne; the world is no longer a vale of tears but a bliss-yielding, perpetual manifestation of the Presence.”

—Joseph Campbell, The Hero With a Thousand Faces

and this passage can likewise apply to the resolution of Luke's Hero's Journey (aka its culmination in Vader's redemption) and to the ending of RotJ in general [again, emphasis mine]:

Furthermore, we have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us; the labyrinth is thoroughly known; we have only to follow the thread of the hero path. And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; and where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our existence; where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.

—Joseph Campbell, The Hero With a Thousand Faces

By including these elements of comparative religion and mythology, Lucas was attempting to write a modern myth, following conventional, millennia-old methods, while simultaneously trying to make it relevant to modern audiences, as well as meaningful across cultures and generations. In some ways he was perhaps attempting something similar to Tolkien, but where Tolkien's work synthesizes and reinvents Northern European mythology within a decidedly 'English' linguistic, literary, and cultural context, Lucas was trying to make his work resonate on a more universal level:

"I did research to try to distill everything down into motifs that would be universal. I attribute most of the success of it to the psychological underpinning, which had been around for thousands of years and the people still react the same way to the stories as they always have."

-- George Lucas

There's a lot more where that came from, but my point is that, even though it's *NOT* the OT that's under discussion here, there IS still something of the mythological —- or rather more accurately ‘mythopoeic’, to borrow Tolkien's own neologism —-influence in those films, even if at that point it was still just only burgeoning, and not as fully-realized as what came later in the Prequels.

And yes, I do believe at least some of what I was discussing about the Prequels is likewise intentional, and not solely something I read into it. First of all, if GL's approach to the OT was haphazard and spontaneous, and only truly coming into its own toward the end in RotJ, then his approach to the Prequels was much more consciously developed, in terms of what he was aiming for and trying to achieve on that symbolic and mythological level being much more clear to him from the very start. There's plenty I could mention here, but when it comes specifically to the Hades and Persephone stuff I was discussing above, there is a quote from Iain McCaig (the concept artist whose work I posted as references for the photoshoot) that I find interesting since he played a big part in helping to crystallize the visual aesthetic of those films, especially the character and costume design side of things. He stated that in working on the Prequels he had come to understand that

"....Star Wars is not a futuristic world, it is a mythological one. Star Wars happened a long time ago, so it is more mythology than science fiction. Consequently, what we design doesn't have to make scientific sense, but it must spark some recognition with a familiar mythological archetype."

— Ian McCaig, Myth Making: Behind the Scenes of Attack of the Clones

These 'mythological archetypes' can be found throughout the Prequels (and even, to an extent, in the OT), and are not limited to just the 'Anakin and Padme as Death and the Maiden' theme, but to go through and highlight everything specifically is probably beyond the scope of this post, not to mention this thread. ; ) 


ETA: I meant to also include this piece of fine art entitled 'Vader's Dream' that Lucas personally commissioned and which currently hangs in his private collection. To me it evokes strongly the mythological and also highly Romantic interpretation of Anakin and Padme which I referred to in my original posts:



The caption under this piece reads: “I will safe keep your good heart, Dear One, until you are ready for its return."

The artist, Kirk Reinert, states:

“The mechanical and bio-mechanical umbilical cords attached from under the water; Anakin is wearing what is partially Darth Vader armor and partially Jedi Knight robes; his hands are crossed representing a prisoner, Padme is wearing the headpiece that she wore in the beginning of their relationship but she also has the plants and flowers in her hair from her funeral. Anakin never saw her funeral so he has no reference to dream these specific flowers, therefore, Padme’s presence in this dream is real and not conjured from Anakin/Vader’s subconscious.”

Someday I would love to re-create this hauntingly beautiful piece in 1/6 form. :') 

And in relation to what I was saying about Anakin's character exploration in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, I would most definitely say all that was intentional on Lucas' part and was meant to be read alongside the film and to be complimentary to it, because Matthew Stover wrote that novel in direct consultation with George Lucas. This was not necessarily the case with other SW novelizations, but it was the case with this one. And is just one of the many reasons why I can quote it confidently as being intended to inform our understanding of Anakin's character. Even if this weren't the case, I would still find it illuminating to MY personal understanding of Anakin (just as I would of any well-written fanfiction, for instance), but I bring up Lucas' direct influence on it since that seemed to be being called into question.

Likewise, the Clone Wars CGI animated series was begun under Lucas's supervision, and while there were many others who had a ton of input in the details of how it was made and the overall tone, style, and direction of it (most specifically, Dave Filoni), it was nonetheless made under his auspices so to speak, and with the intention to help audiences better understand and appreciate the Prequels-era and its characters. (And while it doesn't really matter to me or affect whether or not I view what I 'got' out of that series as 'valid', I do also recall that Lucas' daughter even wrote several of the episodes of that show.)

Is GL's approach to his own work extremely 'revisionist' at times? Sure. But to me that is not always a bad thing. And as a perfectionist myself, I can even empathize. His vision for the scope of the story has changed and shifted many times since he first made ANH. But that doesn't make any difference whatsoever to my view of the saga as it stands in its completed form. When viewed together, the Prequels and Original Trilogy form a complete tale of two parts, one of tragedy, one of redemption, that echo and mirror each other in a beautiful way:





To finish, here is another Campbell quote that is basically the ending of Revenge of the Sith, and which underscores my own view of the Prequels' role in elevating the saga even further to the level of 'myth':

One thing that comes out of myths is that at the bottom of the abyss comes the voice of salvation. The black moment is the moment when the real message of transformation is going to come. At the darkest moment comes the light.

-- Joseph Campbell, The Power of Myth

The darkest moment, when Anakin and the Jedi Order fall, is the moment when the 'light' comes (aka, when Luke and Leia are born), and how, even as Vader stands looking over the Death Star, the film ends instead with Owen and Beru holding Luke on Tatooine, facing the light of the twin suns.

And finally, we get to the quote that you will no doubt recognize, as it serves as my signature here on this forum.

“The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read, not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man.”

— Joseph Campbell

I feel that this perfectly describes the story of the Prequels and the Original Trilogy. Aka, the 'universal tragedy of man', ultimately transcended by the 'happy ending of the fairy tale'. To me, this is the Skywalker saga.

No one has to agree with me on any of this, of course, and I'd realllly rather not get into a debate about it, but I'm just stating it for the record, so people understand where I'm coming from, and why I value the aspects of Star Wars that I do. Yes, I refer to myself as a 'fangirl', but my love of Anakin Skywalker runs much deeper than some silly, superficial oogling. He is a character of immense pathos to me, and I feel for him on a level that is difficult to explain, but which I've attempted to nonetheless in the reams of meta I've written (both in this thread and on my Star Wars-themed tumblr blog, 'The Far, Bright Center'). And likewise, my view of the original saga as a spiritual, uplifting tale of hope, light, and redemption in the face of great darkness may have been informed by my childhood experiences with it, but is also something I've come to believe even more strongly in after careful study of the story and a deep reading of its 'text' over the last several years.

Believe me, I'm well aware that you guys on this forum don't like the Prequels, I get it, and even when I gush over it and expound upon it, I'm not and never have been trying to change your minds. I've always been fine with just doing my own thing (and honestly I don't think I should have to defend my love for the Prequels every time the subject comes up here, and especially not on my own posts). But I wanted to explain my understanding of all of this and what it stems from, and while it certainly IS *my* understanding and only that, I still don't think it's based on 'nothing' or is just totally in my imagination.

A piece of media does not have to be without flaw in order to have meaning and value. And while 'Star Wars' (however one defines it) might be 'flawed' in a technical sense, or even a coldly objective sense, from an emotional standpoint, and based on my view of it as a True, created-myth that exists on a higher plane, beyond even the confines of the films in which it originated, I find the story of the PT x OT saga to be perfect just as it is.