1/12 scale headsculpt prices...

Has anyone else noticed that even the mass-produced 1/12 scale headsculpts (either unique third party or parted out tbleague/verycool items) seem to be really expensive? I don't mean custom painted ones, but just the sort that are available on ebay at the moment. There are 1/12 female headsculpts that go for the same or even higher prices than the equivalent 1/6 scale heads.

Why is this? Is it because 1/12 scale is all the rage at the moment, so they can charge more? Or is the fact that it's more difficult to make and paint the smaller scale heads? A bit of both?

The relatively high prices of 1/12 parts is one of the main things that currently prevents me from customizing more figures in that scale -- every time I go to look for pieces online, I think to myself 'I could get [x] item in 1/6 scale for this price instead', and then I give up.

Even the higher-end 1/12 figures themselves always seem really expensive for what they actually are, especially when I compare them to what I could get in 1/6 scale. I suppose for people who primarily collect 1/12, it's not that big of a deal, but when you come from 1/6 and then go look at the 1/12 stuff, it really feels prohibitively expensive for what you actually get.  

Sorry for the rant, but I find this to be sooo frustrating...

I would say it’s a bit of both. And as long as people are willing to spend 1/6 prices for 1/12, that’s only going to get worse.

While there are some cheaper unpainted resin recasts (for both scales), with the skyrocketing prices of sixth-scale figures, twelfth-scale ones have been increasing in price too, perhaps because companies get more ambitious, details get better, and customers start turning to them increasingly as alternatives. Painting and to some extent (depending on what it is) accessorizing a twelfth-scale figure seems generally more difficult than doing that for a sixth-scale one. But yes, the prices have surprised me, too.

GubernatorFan wrote:While there are some cheaper unpainted resin recasts (for both scales), with the skyrocketing prices of sixth-scale figures, twelfth-scale ones have been increasing in price too, perhaps because companies get more ambitious, details get better, and customers start turning to them increasingly as alternatives. Painting and to some extent (depending on what it is) accessorizing a twelfth-scale figure seems generally more difficult than doing that for a sixth-scale one. But yes, the prices have surprised me, too.

Yeah, there are some 'cheaper' options for 1/12 here and there, but as you note, these tend to require a lot more work in terms of customizing (such as a full paint job), which is already so much more difficult at that scale.

I've never had any intentions of switching to 1/12,  but even my occasional attempts to 'dabble' in customizing that scale tend to be short-lived since I find I can't really justify the expense. :/

Stryker2011 wrote:I would say it’s a bit of both. And as long as people are willing to spend 1/6 prices for 1/12, that’s only going to get worse.

Ugh, yeah, I can see that. It's really disheartening. :/

While I was shocked at the prices in the beginning, by now I must say I do respect increased difficulty in producing anything remotely close to 1/6 in quality. The Skeleton of the TBL bodies can't use the same size of joint, but it has to be as stable. And of course the paint job...

But while the price is often at around 50% of the 1/6 version of a boxed figure, I know it's effectively only going to take up a quarter of the space and look just as cool! (At least if you don't look too closely...)
So for me the "I'll buy this figure cause it's pretty" stuff only ever happens in 1/12 now. For my customs however I'm sticking to 1/6, because of the many options and of course the added detail. They are my characters after all.

AerynDiana wrote:
So for me the "I'll buy this figure cause it's pretty" stuff only ever happens in 1/12 now. For my customs however I'm sticking to 1/6, because of the many options and of course the added detail. They are my characters after all.

That makes sense and sounds like a good policy.  I don't really buy anything in either scale 'just because' these days, but I can see why 1/12 would be the scale to do it in. And yeah, for the time being, 1/6 still remains the ideal for customizing purposes, which is what lead to my rant. I'm just frustrated because I have only a handful of custom 1/12 figures planned, and yet it's been a) much more expensive than I'd have preferred (since 1/12 is not 'my' scale and I only dabbble in it), and b) a logistical nightmare to find and collect compatible parts for them....

i totally get that frustration. with 1/6 prices regularly passing past 200€ for a figure i was tempted to branch out on 1/12 mortal kombat figures a few years ago.
that is until i saw the prices. worldbox if i remember correctly did a cool sub zero, scorpion and kung lao for about 150€ each, whereas the 1/12 counterparts were nowhere below 80€ to obtain.

sure they're detailed and poseable but geez 80€+ for something "toy sized"? especially if you have to collect some roster to get a proper diorama.
so in the end i wasn't paying much more money to get a 1/6 diorama and a few kitbashed items, weird.

same thing with super7. their 1/12 tmnt figures are my inner childs wild dream, but the adult wallet flips me the bird at 65-something € a figure.
i mean 30€ would hurt a lot to rebuild your collection of yore but 65+? no way i'm paying 1000€ for the "essential" roster and not even army build foot soldiers.

as for 1/6 clothes and accessories, i ponder more often than not if i should pay 15€ for a pair of toy shoes when the real things on my feet cost me 30€ tops.
yeah i know, i don't give a damn what keeps me dry and warm
then i search for an estimated price on the newest leon figure from re 2 remake and shake my head at some 300€.
oddly i'm kinda relieved to have paid 100 something, give or take to kitbash me a "leon" and "hunk" with 2 spare bodies i had around my stuff.

on the other hand there's no going back, for me at least, to the days of bbi, dragon or other then-cool figures, for we made quantum leaps in terms of quality since i started with my first 1/6 figure in 2001.
but a middle ground between the 60€ from the past and utopian 300+€ for a "simple" figure would be nice for the community overall.
i see the value in a power armor figure personally as do others when they drool over a hulkbuster, still hot toys shouldn't be the guideline when it comes to establishing price ranges.
same goes for 1/12 of course, i'd say 50€ tops for a really great figure with tons of accessories and maybe 100€ for giants like motaro in the mortal kombat line mentioned above, but everything above, i just can't justify spending money on when there's so much cool stuff around.

kind regards

Tjolnir -- so sorry you've encountered similar issues. Yes, of course, the 1/6 scale prices when set by Hot Toys are ridiculous and astronomical..... but at the same time, as you say, it still doesn't make it feel any better to be spending £80 per figure in 1/12 scale, either! ;p Especially when you want multiple figures, it still adds up really quickly. I have been willing to spend £££ on a few smaller high-end collectibles here and there (like certain Figuarts that I really wanted), but it's still frustrating that even the lower end 6 inch figures can be quite expensive in their own right. At least, if you want to collect them in any substantial number. Even something like Black Series for me in the UK is too expensive! Because I have to buy it online, most of the 6 inch Black Series end up out of my price range really, really fast. Once you take shipping and import tax into account, even a £30 or 340 gbp Hasbro figure can easily end up being twice the amount, or more. If I *only* collected 1/12, it might not be an issue, but when I'm also simultaneously trying to make sure I can still afford to customize in 1/6 scale, it's really hard to justify. I can't just look at a 6-inch plastic Black Series figure and say 'yes I'll splurge £80 to buy this from the US', when I could get some 1/6 accessories/outfits/headsculpts with that money instead.

And yes, I know this is hardly a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but if I can't rant about this stuff here on a collector/customizer forum, then where can I....  

Tjolnir wrote:as for 1/6 clothes and accessories, i ponder more often than not if i should pay 15€ for a pair of toy shoes when the real things on my feet cost me 30€ tops.
yeah i know, i don't give a damn what keeps me dry and warm

Ugh, yes.

I was looking for some 1/6 underwear and it's crazy that I can get fancy 1:1 for $10-15 on sale while 1/6 scale costs $35.

I agree 100% , even wanted to start a similar discussion to rant about this when I saw a 45€ headsculpt, thought 'well that's a bit pricey' and only then realized it wasn't even 1/6, but 1/12!

Before I got into the apocalypse business I thought about customizing some rebels, but lost interest as it's not really a cheap alternative to 1/6 as we thought it would be.

Unpainted recasts of heads cost me 4-8 € per head. I think they are easy to get in the US, had to pick up my US head shipment at customs so it was probably the first and last.
From Canada it was no problem.

Lucky with the blackseries stuff though, got all (3 only) for around 20-25€

Ovy wrote:I agree 100% , even wanted to start a similar discussion to rant about this when I saw a 45€ headsculpt, thought 'well that's a bit pricey' and only then realized it wasn't even 1/6, but 1/12!

Ha, I think I must have seen this same head, which likewise inspired me to go into this rant...

Ovy wrote: Before I got into the apocalypse business I thought about customizing some rebels, but lost interest as it's not really a cheap alternative to 1/6 as we thought it would be.

That's exactly it. This is my biggest pet peeve about 1/12. While I understand that some collectors prefer it for various reasons, it really annoys me when people claim that it's a 'cheaper alternative' to 1/6. Because that is a load of BS!

Ovy wrote:Unpainted recasts of heads cost me 4-8 € per head. I think they are easy to get in the US, had to pick up my US head shipment at customs so it was probably the first and last.
From Canada it was no problem.

Nice find, and thanks for the tip!

Ovy wrote:Lucky with the blackseries stuff though, got all (3 only) for around 20-25€

That *is* lucky! I think I just have really bad luck with Black Series -- it seems like every figure I want from that line ends up being a rare one or some kind of 'Walmart Exclusive' which is not available via online retail and then ends up going for extra high prices on ebay. Argh.

skywalkersaga wrote:

Ovy wrote: Before I got into the apocalypse business I thought about customizing some rebels, but lost interest as it's not really a cheap alternative to 1/6 as we thought it would be.

That's exactly it. This is my biggest pet peeve about 1/12. While I understand that some collectors prefer it for various reasons, it really annoys me when people claim that it's a 'cheaper alternative' to 1/6. Because that is a load of BS!

Yeah, I've been looking at prices for 1/12 and 1/6 parts and I think the only way 1/12 is cheaper is if you don't do any customization at all.

Like $20-40 Hasbro/Mattel or $80-100 SHF/Mafex/Mezco vs $250-275 Hot Toys, no extra expenses (apart from tax and shipping). Probably helps if you're based in the US as well. :p

Doing 1/12 with TBL/Phicen bodies, you sacrifice detail without really saving on price plus you get far fewer accessories options.

Just another perspective on the matter. If you think about the resources and materials used, to make any scale, are relatively going to be the same. One will not be cheaper than the other. Rather, a smaller scale may actually cost more than their larger scale counterpart. Reason being less materials used, smaller or equal production runs... which we all know tends to lead to higher costs per unit (ie. Bulk savings are reduced with lesser materials being bought/used). We see this everyday. Buy more = save more. Bulk buying and savings, mass production vs low production runs... Costs are not going to be cheaper when faced with these variables. Or those are my thoughts.

Oh didn't knew the Black Series had such high rising prices.

Got a Rex last year on Amazon for 23€ or something, now it's sold out. (Well, one person is trying to sell one for 123€...)

The Mimban guy and imperial agent are still under 30 as I bought them.

Got one from this site, don't know if it makes sense to ship to the UK, but there are reasonable prices sometimes... although I don't know what you are looking for exactly.
http://www.swblackseries.de/epages/es122787.mobile/de_DE/?ViewAction=View&ObjectID=46428732&PageSize=5

Here is the thread were I have multiple unpainted 1/12 resin  sculpts on display, in my second post I think. 
https://onesixthfigures.forumotion.com/t1190-999th-imperial-penal-battalion-1-12-star-wars-update-6-17-kx-droid?highlight=999th


And doodle, what you say makes absolute sense I guess.

doodlehobby wrote:Just another perspective on the matter. If you think about the resources and materials used, to make any scale, are relatively going to be the same. One will not be cheaper than the other. Rather, a smaller scale may actually cost more than their larger scale counterpart. Reason being less materials used, smaller or equal production runs... which we all know tends to lead to higher costs per unit (ie. Bulk savings are reduced with lesser materials being bought/used). We see this everyday. Buy more = save more. Bulk buying and savings, mass production vs low production runs... Costs are not going to be cheaper when faced with these variables. Or those are my thoughts.

Yep. This is partially why mass produced 1/12 scale Hasbro, Mattel, Bandai, etc. can be much cheaper than 1/6 Hot Toys, etc. That and lower quality/detail.

Really, the raw materials themselves should cost less. It's the tooling/overhead and labor that's expensive. Makes me feel like I should learn to sew. Fabric is cheap especially given how little 12" figures require.

When you go smaller in scale, you only save material cost, which I'm sure the the smallest aspect of production. The rest is design, labour, production,... so I am actually surprised that many 1/12 figures are indeed around half price to their 1/6 counterparts.

This really to me is an indication that 1/6 is seriously overpriced, not 1/12. $80 for Skarah 1/12 was absolutely justified in my mind, considering the small production run. If it was produced in main stream numbers I'm sure the price could go down, but not in the niche.

Thanks for the very insightful comments, AerynDiana and doodlehobby! It's a really good point about production costs vs. the actual cost of materials. You are right Diana that it points to mass-produced 1/6 scale items being already way overpriced to begin with (a depressing situation in its own right, sigh).

I guess the issue of expense ultimately depends on how one is approaching 1/12 as a scale, and which types of figures one is focusing on, as well as the added factor of whether one is also already into 1/6 or just solely collecting 1/12. Likewise, as rui noted, one's mileage in 1/12 varies wildly depending on whether you are collecting high-end or mass-produced stuff, and whether you are 'just' collecting in that scale or also attempting to customize (especially if going the tbleague-style route of kitbashing or creating/collecting outfits and gear, as well).

From my perspective, 1/12 often *seems* overly expensive since I'm usually working on 1/6 figures at the same time and thus it's difficult not to make comparisons about 'what could I get in 1/6 scale instead' along the way. But this is a rather niche personal issue of mine , and I totally get that everyone is coming to this from different angles and with different needs and expectations.

Also, to be clear, I'm not really criticizing 1/12 or those who are into it, I'm just frustrated when I see 1/12 being touted as a more affordable 'alternative' for 1/6. I don't think it should be promoted in that manner, as the situation is more complicated than that. It may work out that way for some lucky people and for certain types of figures, but I think once you go down the customization route, it doesn't matter what scale you're working in.... pretty much anything can (and likely will) end up being really expensive. ;p

AerynDiana wrote:When you go smaller in scale, you only save material cost, which I'm sure the the smallest aspect of production. The rest is design, labour, production,... so I am actually surprised that many 1/12 figures are indeed around half price to their 1/6 counterparts.

This really to me is an indication that 1/6 is seriously overpriced, not 1/12. $80 for Skarah 1/12 was absolutely justified in my mind, considering the small production run. If it was produced in main stream numbers I'm sure the price could go down, but not in the niche.

I do wonder if they have higher production runs on 1/12 figures than 1/6.

While these aren't mainstream, I wouldn't mind paying $70-80 for, say, 1/12 Red Sonja or Vampirella when I wouldn't pay $160+ for the 1/6 versions. Display and diorama for 1/12 is a lot easier, too.

I don't have a lot of space so I'm only doing Black Widow (and Bucky) in 1/6. The rest of the Avengers, I picked up as $20-70 Marvel Legends or SH Figuarts. Nice thing about the mass produced plastic stuff, I've actually played with them since I don't have to worry about being too rough on the figures.

skywalkersaga wrote:[...] but I think once you go down the customization route, it doesn't matter what scale you're working in.... pretty much anything can (and likely will) end up being really expensive. ;p

Yeah, I think you're right. -.-

rui wrote:I wouldn't mind paying $70-80 for, say, 1/12 Red Sonja or Vampirella when I wouldn't pay $160+ for the 1/6 versions.[...]

Sadly I passed on exactly those two... not sure whether that was a mistake yet... ^^

rui wrote:

doodlehobby wrote:Just another perspective on the matter. If you think about the resources and materials used, to make any scale, are relatively going to be the same. One will not be cheaper than the other. Rather, a smaller scale may actually cost more than their larger scale counterpart. Reason being less materials used, smaller or equal production runs... which we all know tends to lead to higher costs per unit (ie. Bulk savings are reduced with lesser materials being bought/used). We see this everyday. Buy more = save more. Bulk buying and savings, mass production vs low production runs... Costs are not going to be cheaper when faced with these variables. Or those are my thoughts.

Yep. This is partially why mass produced 1/12 scale Hasbro, Mattel, Bandai, etc. can be much cheaper than 1/6 Hot Toys, etc. That and lower quality/detail.

Really, the raw materials themselves should cost less. It's the tooling/overhead and labor that's expensive. Makes me feel like I should learn to sew. Fabric is cheap especially given how little 12" figures require.

Raw materials yes and no. Buying smaller quantity to make said product may cost 'less' but overall unit cost will be 'more'. We can order some raw materials at work to compound/make certain things and unit costs for lower quantities are actually higher than if we went with a higher bulk quantity. Same with materials/supplies we acquire (lower quantity equates to higher unit cost). Why we strategize ordering a yearly bulk supply to minimize impact of supply costs overall too.

It's complicated for sure as has been discussed. There are other factors that have to be considered on top of all this as well. Like you said, tooling, labour, etc.

The only 1/12 (or sometimes labeled 'non-scale') figures I currently collect are SHF or Figma. TBL needs to improve their articulation of their seamless bodies at this scale. Unless there's durability issues we are still unsure off as well at this scale. But that might also be difficult as perhaps the engineering and tech isn't available yet at this scale for them. Either that or they need to make up for the initial tooling invested when they first delved into this.

doodlehobby wrote:Raw materials yes and no. Buying smaller quantity to make said product may cost 'less' but overall unit cost will be 'more'. We can order some raw materials at work to compound/make certain things and unit costs for lower quantities are actually higher than if we went with a higher bulk quantity. Same with materials/supplies we acquire (lower quantity equates to higher unit cost). Why we strategize ordering a yearly bulk supply to minimize impact of supply costs overall too.

It's complicated for sure as has been discussed. There are other factors that have to be considered on top of all this as well. Like you said, tooling, labour, etc.

As you mentioned, it depends. I think for these, a lot of the raw materials can be reused across different scales/product lines so they get the same bulk discount anyway.

Also, we don't know the production numbers. It's quite possible they sell more of 1/12 despite the characters not being mainstream thanks to the more affordable cost and easier to display/collect size.

Yeah. Maybe more popular in Asian markets than here. Considering they have more manufacturers making 1/12 non scale figures there than here... There's clearly a market for it. Even 1/18 scale or 1/25 seem to be viable if companies are still making them too.