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TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly???

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oranzman


Dear all.

I write this in Korea, I could not find any solution in Korean figure communities.
Maybe you guys know...

TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? 20230811
TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? 20230810


This TBleagu figure is PLMB2017-S22A.

I kept this in cool condition. (not hot place, no sun light)
.
.
.

however, her legs (*from the lower thigh to the calf.) are like JELLY.
Upper body & Upper thighs are OK, but from Lower thighs are horrible. It's mushy, it's like slime.
It's a feeling that can't be repaired, but I want to know why this silicone body is so runny.

Have you ever been like this to yours?

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
Very odd indeed, but I have no explanation to offer. One of the legs looks significantly more impacted than the other, and there is what looks like an imprinted pattern on it. The storage conditions you describe ought to have helped keep the body in good condition. Is it possible the TPE (it is not silicone) had not properly set or cured to begin with and gradually got worse (I assume there was no discernible problem when you first received and used the body)? Was there any kind of unusual material (some kinds of plastics or rubbers or glues) that might have been in contact with that part of the body that it might have reacted to?


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Stryker2012

Stryker2012
Founding Father
Well this is a new one. Never seen anything like this before. Sorry to see. I’ve had Phicens/TBL figures for over 10 years, and I’ve never seen, or heard, anything like this before. I think Ian may be onto to right about it possibly coming into contact with something.


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Mark

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He who dies with the most toys wins!

TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? 1f10

Adeno


I have your same problem. I have around 10 or so TBLeague ladies and two of them suffered the same fate. The first one was the original S02 body (the really tan one, not the second lighter version) which "melted" in a worse manner and I had to throw it away. The second one is what I believe an S10D body. Interestingly, I have a couple of S10Ds but only one of them melted that way. I just took pictures of it because I still haven't thrown it away because I was thinking of using it for a "Lady Terminator" character if she melts and loses more flesh. Take note of the yellowish, probably oil, substance on the tissue paper that I used to wrap it in. There used to be more of those yellow stains whenever I changed the tissue paper wrapping before. Also, the problem of the flesh being like jelly or melted are concentrated on the arms and the legs. The main body itself still feels firm and perfect. I noticed this similar melty jelly effect on the smaller original 1/12 TBLeague lady as well.

As for conditions, it's very hot here in my part of the USA, to the point that metal door handles can get hot, and these ladies aren't touching anything else. For posing, they were just standing normally, nothing special. It's just those two which inexplicably melted while the other ladies, even older models from 2014 and around that year, are still in great condition here and have never melted. If this kind of thing can happen in a cool place like yours, I imagine we unfortunately received "bad" batches. I have other S10Ds that never melted.

Take note how even the tissue paper made marks on the flesh.

TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? G0x7bSV

I have no idea how to explain this... it's like her flesh became a suit that you could pull up and down.

TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? YPIYedU

The area near the elbow just split open in a very clean manner.

TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? NmqWShC

She has very gelatinous thighs.

TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? 1rvau1y

Her skin is also peeling off.

TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? JOjoEYx

The tissue paper I wrapped her in has yellow oily stains, there used to be more in the past.

TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? MAuWHSU

The fleshy area of her arms are really slushy!

TBleague(Phicen) body is now like jelly??? 9g1oB92


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valentin

valentin
It is possible to be suffering from "post-cure melting after exposure to high temperature"

https://www.kaysun.com/blog/thermoplastic-elastomer-vs-liquid-silicone-rubber

And nope, there's no recovery from it after it has happened, for mine, I just put it back into it's packaging.

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
Adeno wrote:I have your same problem. I have around 10 or so TBLeague ladies and two of them suffered the same fate. The first one was the original S02 body (the really tan one, not the second lighter version) which "melted" in a worse manner and I had to throw it away. The second one is what I believe an S10D body. Interestingly, I have a couple of S10Ds but only one of them melted that way. I just took pictures of it because I still haven't thrown it away because I was thinking of using it for a "Lady Terminator" character if she melts and loses more flesh. Take note of the yellowish, probably oil, substance on the tissue paper that I used to wrap it in. There used to be more of those yellow stains whenever I changed the tissue paper wrapping before. Also, the problem of the flesh being like jelly or melted are concentrated on the arms and the legs. The main body itself still feels firm and perfect. I noticed this similar melty jelly effect on the smaller original 1/12 TBLeague lady as well.

As for conditions, it's very hot here in my part of the USA, to the point that metal door handles can get hot, and these ladies aren't touching anything else. For posing, they were just standing normally, nothing special. It's just those two which inexplicably melted while the other ladies, even older models from 2014 and around that year, are still in great condition here and have never melted. If this kind of thing can happen in a cool place like yours, I imagine we unfortunately received "bad" batches. I have other S10Ds that never melted.

Take note how even the tissue paper made marks on the flesh.

I have no idea how to explain this... it's like her flesh became a suit that you could pull up and down.
The area near the elbow just split open in a very clean manner.
She has very gelatinous thighs.
Her skin is also peeling off.
The tissue paper I wrapped her in has yellow oily stains, there used to be more in the past.
The fleshy area of her arms are really slushy!
Sorry to see this, but it confirms the possibility of it occurring -- except of course for the reportedly different conditions. The oily stains are because there is oil in the TPE to begin with. Even a totally "healthy" TPE body would leave some staining on paper or cardboard.

valentin wrote:It is possible to be suffering from "post-cure melting after exposure to high temperature"

https://www.kaysun.com/blog/thermoplastic-elastomer-vs-liquid-silicone-rubber
Or creeping and deformation?


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crispyorange

crispyorange
혹시 그것이 위조품일 수도 있나요?

Could this be a counterfeit issue?

Kayla

Kayla
Oh, I'm very sorry to see this terrible damage to the TBLeague/Phicen bodies! affraid

A few thoughts on this...

I have read and heard from other hobby areas that PVC (polyvinyl chloride) can cause serious damage to other plastics such as silicone. If silicone and PVC touch each other directly for a while, the silicone is said to literally melt. A chemical reaction is supposed to take place.

Since it was previously said that TBLeague/Phicen Bodies were made of silicone, this might explain the damage shown above. I'm not sure whether the older bodies with nice airbrush painting were perhaps made of silicone (feel softer) and the newer bodies without airbrush painting were made of TPE (feels a bit firmer).

Or it is possible that rubber-like plastics generally do not mix well with PVC (probably also because of the plasticizers that evaporate).

And who knows how many 1/6 scale accessories are made of PVC ...

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Kayla, that's a great point and thank you for the reminder about PVC!


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Ignoring current 'official' Star Wars content for my own sanity.

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
skywalkersaga wrote:Kayla, that's a great point and thank you for the reminder about PVC!

Well, guys, maybe it depends on the PVC or it is something else: most headsculpts are PVC and I have never yet noticed trouble where the head touches the neck.


_________________
I'll be back!
https://onesixthfigures.forumotion.com

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
GubernatorFan wrote:
skywalkersaga wrote:Kayla, that's a great point and thank you for the reminder about PVC!

Well, guys, maybe it depends on the PVC or it is something else: most headsculpts are PVC and I have never yet noticed trouble where the head touches the neck.

I've heard warnings about not letting rubber (like rubber bands) touch certain types of plastic as well, but not witnessed anything bad happen from it myself. So idk, I don't think it's anything to freak out over, but just to keep in mind.


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Ignoring current 'official' Star Wars content for my own sanity.

Valiarde

Valiarde
GubernatorFan wrote:
skywalkersaga wrote:Kayla, that's a great point and thank you for the reminder about PVC!

Well, guys, maybe it depends on the PVC or it is something else: most headsculpts are PVC and I have never yet noticed trouble where the head touches the neck.

I'm with Ian here.
I'm working in the chemical industry and just asked my coworker, who has a diploma in synthetic substances and adhesives. While he said that he isn't an expert when it comes to silicone in particular, he is pretty sure PVC does nothing to it. PVC is pretty inert in general. 
The biggest risks for silicone are changing temperatures and direkt sunlight. This is why silicone to close window joints is only a temporary solution (4 seasons, water, UV light and the window itself might expand or contract under temperatures which will all affect silicone)

Similar effects can be with your figs at home - while not as harsh as window joint kit, they will be affected by changing temperatures and uv light. But I think all of you know this by now and it is often mentioned here. Just want to say it again  Smile
You can never be careful enough if you want to enjoy your investments in the hobby for a long time!


_________________
The knight is darkest just before the dawn.

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
Valiarde wrote:
I'm with Ian here.
I'm working in the chemical industry and just asked my coworker, who has a diploma in synthetic substances and adhesives. While he said that he isn't an expert when it comes to silicone in particular, he is pretty sure PVC does nothing to it. PVC is pretty inert in general. 
The biggest risks for silicone are changing temperatures and direkt sunlight. This is why silicone to close window joints is only a temporary solution (4 seasons, water, UV light and the window itself might expand or contract under temperatures which will all affect silicone)

Similar effects can be with your figs at home - while not as harsh as window joint kit, they will be affected by changing temperatures and uv light. But I think all of you know this by now and it is often mentioned here. Just want to say it again  Smile
You can never be careful enough if you want to enjoy your investments in the hobby for a long time!

Thanks for checking and confirming, Simon. This makes good sense.


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MeMyself&I

MeMyself&I
Valiarde wrote:
GubernatorFan wrote:
skywalkersaga wrote:Kayla, that's a great point and thank you for the reminder about PVC!

Well, guys, maybe it depends on the PVC or it is something else: most headsculpts are PVC and I have never yet noticed trouble where the head touches the neck.

I'm with Ian here.
I'm working in the chemical industry and just asked my coworker, who has a diploma in synthetic substances and adhesives. While he said that he isn't an expert when it comes to silicone in particular, he is pretty sure PVC does nothing to it. PVC is pretty inert in general. 
The biggest risks for silicone are changing temperatures and direkt sunlight. This is why silicone to close window joints is only a temporary solution (4 seasons, water, UV light and the window itself might expand or contract under temperatures which will all affect silicone)

Similar effects can be with your figs at home - while not as harsh as window joint kit, they will be affected by changing temperatures and uv light. But I think all of you know this by now and it is often mentioned here. Just want to say it again  Smile
You can never be careful enough if you want to enjoy your investments in the hobby for a long time!

Out of curiosity, since you work in a field that would have experience with this, how would you define “temperature change”? Is it X degrees over Y time? And how would you view relative humidity? I know it’ll be kind of a general answer, but I’m curious if there is a sort of range to it all where if you exceed said range you’re asking for trouble.

We all live in different climates with different temperature ranges and humidity levels. I personally take great pains to keep the room mine are in at around the 50% relative humidity, but the temp in said room can range through the year from 50F (on the absolute coldest day) to 75F on the hottest. There is a window, but I either block the direct sunlight (blinds or black presentation paper I tape over the window), or the time in direct sunlight is minimal (if I have the window open to let in fresh air for instance). It’s been working great and for 3 years and counting no issues. I guess I’m also kind of looking for validation I’m doing something right? Lol

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
The temperature and humidity thing is such a frustrating topic for me, since I live in a house and location where I have very little control over either. Obviously the UK can be quite humid, and we used to have fairly mild summers and winters so no huge temperature fluctuations, but unfortunately nowadays that is no longer the case as we often have quite hot summers (ugh) and zero airconditioning.

I use a dehumidifier in the hallway outside of the room where I keep most of my figures and spare bodies. And the room they are in has the window fully blocked. The figures are all inside a cupboard, not open to the air. There's nothing i can do about the actual temperature though. I try to manage it by sometimes opening and closing the door of the room strategically to let warm/cold air in or out, and to allow the dehumidifier 'access' to the room, but that's the best I can do.

I try not to think about it too much because it's just one of those things I cannot control. I've started trying to use non-seamless bodies for figures that are fully covered or that I'm putting in custom-made clothing, because that's my main concern. I honestly don't care that much if the tbleague bodies eventually 'decompose' in some way, but my worry is that they will 'leak' and ruin my custom outfits.


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Ignoring current 'official' Star Wars content for my own sanity.

Phicen clothes

Phicen clothes
oranzman wrote:Dear all.

This TBleagu figure is PLMB2017-S22A.

I kept this in cool condition. (not hot place, no sun light)
.
.Have you ever been like this to yours?

The manufacturer has thrown on the market not fully tested products. I think you're not the only one with your problem.  Perhaps many thousands of other consumers of these dolls have it.  I think it is necessary to make a public protest to the manufacturer of these low-quality dolls.  And demand compensation for financial and moral losses of consumers.

https://www.instagram.com/phicen_exotic_clothes/

MeMyself&I

MeMyself&I
skywalkersaga wrote:The temperature and humidity thing is such a frustrating topic for me, since I live in a house and location where I have very little control over either. Obviously the UK can be quite humid, and we used to have fairly mild summers and winters so no huge temperature fluctuations, but unfortunately nowadays that is no longer the case as we often have quite hot summers (ugh) and zero airconditioning.

I use a dehumidifier in the hallway outside of the room where I keep most of my figures and spare bodies. And the room they are in has the window fully blocked. The figures are all inside a cupboard, not open to the air. There's nothing i can do about the actual temperature though. I try to manage it by sometimes opening and closing the door of the room strategically to let warm/cold air in or out, and to allow the dehumidifier 'access' to the room, but that's the best I can do.

I try not to think about it too much because it's just one of those things I cannot control. I've started trying to use non-seamless bodies for figures that are fully covered or that I'm putting in custom-made clothing, because that's my main concern. I honestly don't care that much if the tbleague bodies eventually 'decompose' in some way, but my worry is that they will 'leak' and ruin my custom outfits.


This is the sorta thing that inspired me to ask what I did (I remember you talking about this, Sky). I know these bodies can and probably often do take a beating, either in use or from the environment, so if we can kinda figure out a range that’d go a long way in providing peace of mind.

Valiarde

Valiarde
MeMyself&I wrote:
Valiarde wrote:
GubernatorFan wrote:
skywalkersaga wrote:Kayla, that's a great point and thank you for the reminder about PVC!

Well, guys, maybe it depends on the PVC or it is something else: most headsculpts are PVC and I have never yet noticed trouble where the head touches the neck.

I'm with Ian here.
I'm working in the chemical industry and just asked my coworker, who has a diploma in synthetic substances and adhesives. While he said that he isn't an expert when it comes to silicone in particular, he is pretty sure PVC does nothing to it. PVC is pretty inert in general. 
The biggest risks for silicone are changing temperatures and direkt sunlight. This is why silicone to close window joints is only a temporary solution (4 seasons, water, UV light and the window itself might expand or contract under temperatures which will all affect silicone)

Similar effects can be with your figs at home - while not as harsh as window joint kit, they will be affected by changing temperatures and uv light. But I think all of you know this by now and it is often mentioned here. Just want to say it again  Smile
You can never be careful enough if you want to enjoy your investments in the hobby for a long time!

Out of curiosity, since you work in a field that would have experience with this, how would you define “temperature change”? Is it X degrees over Y time? And how would you view relative humidity? I know it’ll be kind of a general answer, but I’m curious if there is a sort of range to it all where if you exceed said range you’re asking for trouble.

We all live in different climates with different temperature ranges and humidity levels. I personally take great pains to keep the room mine are in at around the 50% relative humidity, but the temp in said room can range through the year from 50F (on the absolute coldest day) to 75F on the hottest. There is a window, but I either block the direct sunlight (blinds or black presentation paper I tape over the window), or the time in direct sunlight is minimal (if I have the window open to let in fresh air for instance). It’s been working great and for 3 years and counting no issues. I guess I’m also kind of looking for validation I’m doing something right? Lol

In our case I would say "temperature change" to be depending on affected material. Like, every material slightly expands and contracts at certain temperatures (on a very small scale, you wouldn't necessarily notice with eyes) it can be seen as a relevant temperature change. But then again some materials won't have problems for centuries under such conditions while others will get long term damage from these micro stresses.
Maybe temperarture change isn't the right measurement here but more like "Range of extreme Temperatures" like 0°C in Winter to 60°C in summer and direct sunlight year in year out. 

I'm no expert when it comes to silicone though! - while my company does produce (and measure) all kind of products from lacques, paint, varnishes to insulation panels and joint sealants, I don't have any measurements/data on silicone. I know that the silicone stuff you would use in the bathroom is heavily affected by high humitidy and detergents every day. 
So standard room temperatures around 10-25°C all year and 30-50% humidity should be best case for our figures and shouldn't affect its life span.  Smile


_________________
The knight is darkest just before the dawn.

MeMyself&I

MeMyself&I
Thanks for the range to aim for! Considering my experience, I’d say it’s accurate. That’s probably the hardest thing to control though, the drastic changes in both temp and humidity. Makes me want to experiment.

Phicen clothes

Phicen clothes
I propose to make a collective protest. Here is phicen's email address. sales@phicen.com info@phicen.com

https://www.instagram.com/phicen_exotic_clothes/

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