What is it with military?

What is it you like about military or specifically collecting it? (EDIT: modern tanks, planes and uniforms type stuff.)

I have zero interest and there is a kind of taboo attached to it, as if it was a glorification of war, which of course is a nono.

I'm sure there are some who cherish the glory days and brotherhood, patriotism and loyalty, the good fight (if your country was on the perceived Good side).
But I'm guessing that would be limited to those who remember those days (thinking of WWII in this case).

I know some who investigate and research war out of interest for the human psyche, trying to understand how war could happen, or maybe there is a fascination with the big individual stories these times tell.

But then why collect uniforms? Why put them up on display?

I understand that uniforms can be a fetish, too, but then why THESE uniforms?

Let's keep political statements out of this and focus on the philosophical/psychological aspects.

I think I collect them for historical value. I collect mostly figures starting with Vietnam Onward and there is a really nice selection of figs now that are period accurate. I can use a figure to display all the sort of gear they wore at that period in time, without having to spend thousands of dollars on actual real life military gear. Sixth Scale is also big enough to have details you dont see anywhere else.

I have mostly NATO member figures but I am also interested in expanding on modern Russian figures as well, they have a certain style to them that makes them look unique. Of course, there is always the option to have them appear as troops in Photo stories as well.

For me I suppose the appeal of military modeling is largely in the aesthetics. Shallow, I know, but a lot of military stuff simply looks cool. Obviously this is an extremely subjective opinion.

First World War aviators with their leather flying helmets and goggles and jackets and boots piloting biplanes or triplanes - it's an exciting look reminiscent of an era when there was still adventure and mystery in the world. Early 20th-Century soldiers wearing desert tan and pith helmets - the look just screams exotic adventure, although today some choose to ignorantly dismiss the look as being representative of oppressive colonialism.

I'm not so much in to the fighting, per se; but I find the appearance of the machines of war interesting - tanks, aircraft, zeppelins, battleships - they all appeal to me visually.

Same with the armored knights of Ye Olden Dayes - they look cool! I know that you, Diana, are intrigued by the upcoming 1/12 Imperial Guardians, even though you say you have "zero interest" in military figures. Do you not consider armored knights carrying weapons to be "military figures"? If not, why not?

Personally, the historical accuracy is not as important to me as the overall aesthetic. I usually cobble together my figures from various sources to create a "look" that I like rather than anything even approximating a historical prototype, but the sources for the bits and pieces tend to be largely military.

I find the super detailed and loaded (all puns intended) military sets fascinating, although I don't collect anything modern military. It is a reflection of history, for better or for worse, especially when well researched and executed. It is also a reflection on action figures' history, originating as they did largely in G.I. Joes. I didn't have any Joes and no sentimental attachment to them (my action figures were Kenner Star Wars ones), but I respect that legacy and find the products and bashes that belong to it -- or hearken back to it -- interesting. That said, my own bashes tend to be historical, fantasy, sci fi, or contemporary casual (more for experimenting in simulating realism than as permanent characters). I realize that interest in military and military history is often perceived (and to some extent correctly) as a glorification of war, but it is not only that -- one can study war for what it reveals about society, its effects, and also to be critical of it. It is also that violence (or the threat thereof) is one of the staple elements of drama, and that of entertainment. And, of course, there is respect for the good cause, and for those willing to lay down their lives for it, keeping the rest of us safe.

i guess it all depends on how you perceive violent confrontation on the scale of an armed conflict between equally skilled and equipped/capable parties. in terms of entertainment media such as games/movies/figures i find it very, well, entertaining. surely its the luxury of being a distant observer and not on the immidiate wrong end of a sharp stick/knife/bayonet or gun and far away from personal bodily harm, still the archaic clash of arms, fight for survival, testing your mettle and worth in the world of warriors is something that appealed to me from a very early age. perhaps in modern times there's a negative conotation about the profession of a soldier, when a few hundred years ago being a warrior was accompanied with the highest social status. take samurai for example.
a few years ago i had the pleasure to be able to train (on a very casual scale, think self defense) with a retired soldier from the french foreign legion.suffice to say i was laying on my back most of the time, bruised and blue all over. still the method he used beat everything i tried before. the no nonsense or fancy stuff approach he applied was based on real combat experience. and he didn't even care how many would continue his program for being punched a little to hard, he was doing it for the sake of preparing people to get out of serious trouble alive, if possible, he wasnt charging anything other than the group chime in for the rent of the training room on weekends, barely a few €.
as humbling as it was, it showed me again the value of a warriors experience. and being an old fellow he saw live action, even demonstrated how he took out enemy sentries with a chain and a knife and yeah, once the chain was around my neck while showing the technique i wasnt able to make a sound, even passed out a couple seconds later for a short time.
thing is, he did neither brag nor blow it out of proportions, it was part of his profession and he was doing the task he was given. neither good nor bad, just part of a violent confrontation between warriors. for me, a very humbling experience.

hope that wasnt to much rambling on my part and sheds a little light on why i'm fond of action themed figures.

While I'm not keen on what I consider the rather cheesy 'psuedo military pin-up girl' aesethetic that seems to pervade the 1/6 scale female clothing offerings, I *can* understand wanting to collect historical military figures. I'm not into modern-day military stuff at ALL, since, like Diana, I don't have any interest or positive associations with contemporary warfare. While I don't necessarily romanticise ancient and/or medieval warfare either, I do have an academic interest in those periods, which naturally extends to the military side of things. Especially in certain cases where things like swords and other weapons make up a portion of the grave goods, and so have great archeological significance.

I used to participate in HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) back in the day (just dabbled in German Longsword), and likewise used to do Viking reenactment and living history for a while. My life circumstances prevent me from engaging in those hobbies now, but I've thought about it and considered recreating some of those things in 1/6 scale, since it would be a lot more affordable and realistic for my current situation.

I'm a historian, hoplologist, and experimental archaeologist so have a pretty good collection of full-sized ancient weapons and armour. We ran out of space so I switched to miniatures. A lot of the commercial offerings are pretty inaccurate so I have to make most of my own stuff. I find it therapeutic. I don't have much interest in modern military but my dad does. He has one of the largest bayonet collections in the country.

My favourite miniatures are the ones that look identical to the real thing (except for scale). Doesn't really matter to me whether they are military-themed or not but the modern military sets seem to have the most detailed and accurate reproductions.

Because war is necessary. It’s not surprising that military figures are the cornerstone of the hobby, as most figures made represent some sort of “fighter” — including fantasy and sci-fi figures. War, whether on a small inter-personal level, or on a massive scale, is about survival. Human history is, for the most part, a never-ending struggle to survive. Humans are violent and destructive by nature, and in many cases, Darwin’s theories were correct — survival of the fittest. The strong, or those willing to stand up to those “stronger”, no matter the cost to themselves, have prevailed throughout history — some more successfully than others. If no one is/was willing to stand up, lay their lives on the line, most of humanity would be slaves to the powerful — that’s no way to live.

As others have said, military figures were the beginning of the 1/6 scale hobby (at least marketed for “boys” with GI Joe), it’s where I started back in the 60s. You could even say that every Western, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Avengers, etc., figures all pretty much represent the conflict and struggle of humans to survive, and mankind’s willingness to “fight back” is what keeps us alive. I don’t collect a ton of strictly “military figures,” its mostly due to not being able to assemble them as easily as something less intricate (arthritis sucks!), but I understand the appeal. Perception is a strange thing. While history has painted “good guys” and “bad guys” (and we can honestly say there has been some pretty horrible stuff in human history), regardless of which “side” one was fighting on, the perception of the individual at the time was that they were fighting for a “just cause”, and those that history tells us were “the bad guys”, saw themselves as “the good guys” (whether we agree or not). Sadly, history is being rewritten (and not for a good reason) on a mass scale by the worst of humanity — though they see themselves as the “good guys” — and many brainwashed idiots believe it; history will prove those morons wrong, but it will take necessary war to prove that. (Man, it’s hard not to get political in these types of discussions).

I dont know if your question targets mainly the modern day military stuff (wwII til today) or any military stuff like ancient times, star wars and super heroes - like stryker said, those are all about conflict, fighting and weapons.
Some are real life based and some fictional but in the end many games, books, movies and stories resolve around conflict. It creates high stskes and often creates good plots.

Now some people are not into fictional stuff at all but have interest in real life conflicts - some only in ancient stuff some are interested in more modern day things.
I mean you could collect every day putfits of different eras and it those can be awesome too. But i can see and understand the big interest in the military side of each era.

Thank you all! This is super interesting.

ZeroDelta wrote:I think I collect them for historical value. I collect mostly figures starting with Vietnam Onward and there is a really nice selection of figs now that are period accurate. I can use a figure to display all the sort of gear they wore at that period in time, without having to spend thousands of dollars on actual real life military gear. Sixth Scale is also big enough to have details you dont see anywhere else.

I have mostly NATO member figures but I am also interested in expanding on modern Russian figures as well, they have a certain style to them that makes them look unique. Of course, there is always the option to have them appear as troops in Photo stories as well.

I understand the value of using them in photo stories, but what is the value for YOU in the historical stuff? What do you get out of displaying a historically accurate figure?

davidd wrote:For me I suppose the appeal of military modeling is largely in the aesthetics. [...]

Same with the armored knights of Ye Olden Dayes - they look cool! I know that you, Diana, are intrigued by the upcoming 1/12 Imperial Guardians, even though you say you have "zero interest" in military figures. Do you not consider armored knights carrying weapons to be "military figures"? If not, why not?

I can absolute understand that. The aesthetics are fascinating. As for the Imperial Guardians... I have a Sailor Moon type of association with them, especially because of the skirts and the color variations.  
But you're right, and that's a very good question. I realize that when using the term military I don't include knights or samurai or amazons or super heroes... this is getting tricky... I think this is because in modern times the motives that drive war have changed. They've gotten complicated and convoluted. The old ways feel more honorable, though I'm sure they weren't always, just as modern war may not be dishonorable. 

Funny. On the one hand I like teams with similar outfits (like the Imperial Guardians), because it represents community and loyalty and belonging, and yet the obvious differences also allow room for individual expression beyond mere functionality. On the other I reject military uniforms, because they take away individuality. So for me what goes with military is apparently the suppression of the individual.

GubernatorFan wrote:I find the super detailed and loaded (all puns intended) military sets fascinating, although I don't collect anything modern military. It is a reflection of history, for better or for worse, especially when well researched and executed. It is also a reflection on action figures' history, originating as they did largely in G.I. Joes. I didn't have any Joes and no sentimental attachment to them (my action figures were Kenner Star Wars ones), but I respect that legacy and find the products and bashes that belong to it -- or hearken back to it -- interesting. That said, my own bashes tend to be historical, fantasy, sci fi, or contemporary casual (more for experimenting in simulating realism than as permanent characters). I realize that interest in military and military history is often perceived (and to some extent correctly) as a glorification of war, but it is not only that -- one can study war for what it reveals about society, its effects, and also to be critical of it. It is also that violence (or the threat thereof) is one of the staple elements of drama, and that of entertainment. And, of course, there is respect for the good cause, and for those willing to lay down their lives for it, keeping the rest of us safe.

Yes. Nicely put. I can relate, thank you.

Tjolnir wrote:i guess it all depends on how you perceive violent confrontation on the scale of an armed conflict between equally skilled and equipped/capable parties. in terms of entertainment media such as games/movies/figures i find it very, well, entertaining.
[...] perhaps in modern times there's a negative conotation about the profession of a soldier, when a few hundred years ago being a warrior was accompanied with the highest social status. take samurai for example.
a few years ago i had the pleasure to be able to train (on a very casual scale, think self defense) with a retired soldier [...]
as humbling as it was, it showed me again the value of a warriors experience. [...]
thing is, he did neither brag nor blow it out of proportions, it was part of his profession and he was doing the task he was given. neither good nor bad, just part of a violent confrontation between warriors. for me, a very humbling experience.

I totally understand that war is a great setting for drama and gaming exactly because of those high stakes. I personally find it too unsettling and would always prefer a fantasy setting. I do see value in going in deep (safely and with a healthy distance) and experiencing the horror as realistically as possible, as they should not be forgotten. But everyone has their own learning modality and this ain't mine. ^^ 
I appreciate the training story. Karate is my sport and there isn't much that I value more. It is the art of self discipline, overcoming discomfort, being courageous, honorable, effective and knowing that you can defend yourself. I do have a gi in 1/6, so I suppose it is similar. Yet it feels very different to military. Karate to me, as well as your scenario, feel more personal and intimate. I guess another difference for me is the focus being on the individual or on the collective, not that one is better than the other, because being able to defend the "collective" (family/community) is important, too. But I think it is a matter of size and how far removed the fighter is from the cause.

skywalkersaga wrote:While I'm not keen on what I consider the rather cheesy 'psuedo military pin-up girl' aesethetic that seems to pervade the 1/6 scale female clothing offerings, I *can* understand wanting to collect historical military figures. I'm not into modern-day military stuff at ALL, since, like Diana, I don't have any interest or positive associations with contemporary warfare. While I don't necessarily romanticise ancient and/or medieval warfare either, I do have an academic interest in those periods, which naturally extends to the military side of things. Especially in certain cases where things like swords and other weapons make up a portion of the grave goods, and so have great archeological significance.

I used to participate in HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) back in the day (just dabbled in German Longsword), and likewise used to do Viking reenactment and living history for a while. My life circumstances prevent me from engaging in those hobbies now, but I've thought about it and considered recreating some of those things in 1/6 scale, since it would be a lot more affordable and realistic for my current situation.

Ah yes. Perfectly understandable to manifest your studies into a (semi-)affordable and space-saving scale.  

shazzdan wrote:I'm a historian, hoplologist, and experimental archaeologist so have a pretty good collection of full-sized ancient weapons and armour. We ran out of space so I switched to miniatures. A lot of the commercial offerings are pretty inaccurate so I have to make most of my own stuff. I find it therapeutic. I don't have much interest in modern military but my dad does. He has one of the largest bayonet collections in the country.

My favourite miniatures are the ones that look identical to the real thing (except for scale). Doesn't really matter to me whether they are military-themed or not but the modern military sets seem to have the most detailed and accurate reproductions.

Thank you, I understand that. I do respect the attention to detail in those military sets very much and sometimes I get tempted just for the artistry involved. But then I remember all the little bits and pieces of the one military figure I tried out and then sold.  

Stryker2011 wrote:Because war is necessary. It’s not surprising that military figures are the cornerstone of the hobby, as most figures made represent some sort of “fighter” — including fantasy and sci-fi figures. War, whether on a small inter-personal level, or on a massive scale, is about survival. Human history is, for the most part, a never-ending struggle to survive. Humans are violent and destructive by nature, and in many cases, Darwin’s theories were correct — survival of the fittest. The strong, or those willing to stand up to those “stronger”, no matter the cost to themselves, have prevailed throughout history — some more successfully than others. If no one is/was willing to stand up, lay their lives on the line, most of humanity would be slaves to the powerful — that’s no way to live.

As others have said, military figures were the beginning of the 1/6 scale hobby (at least marketed for “boys” with GI Joe), it’s where I started back in the 60s. You could even say that every Western, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Avengers, etc., figures all pretty much represent the conflict and struggle of humans to survive, and mankind’s willingness to “fight back” is what keeps us alive. I don’t collect a ton of strictly “military figures,” its mostly due to not being able to assemble them as easily as something less intricate (arthritis sucks!), but I understand the appeal. Perception is a strange thing. While history has painted “good guys” and “bad guys” (and we can honestly say there has been some pretty horrible stuff in human history), regardless of which “side” one was fighting on, the perception of the individual at the time was that they were fighting for a “just cause”, and those that history tells us were “the bad guys”, saw themselves as “the good guys” (whether we agree or not). Sadly, history is being rewritten (and not for a good reason) on a mass scale by the worst of humanity — though they see themselves as the “good guys” — and many brainwashed idiots believe it; history will prove those morons wrong, but it will take necessary war to prove that. (Man, it’s hard not to get political in these types of discussions).

Wouldn't I love to have a face to face discussion with you.
While I agree that human society breeds violence and destructive behaviour nowadays and has done so for as long as we can remember, I am sure it is NOT our true nature to initiate violence (harm to others). That comes from an unhealthy mind and it is not in our nature to be unhealthy.
To my knowledge newer findings (including the study of indigenous tribal societies) show that cooperation leads to much better survival rates than competition.

I do love fighter figures, because in our world we do have to be able to defend our values and life feels like a battle a lot of the time and they represent the bravery and skill to do it. 
I very much appreciate the nod to everyone usually doing what they think is right. There are few truly bad people in the world. 

Valiarde wrote:I dont know if your question targets mainly the modern day military stuff (wwII til today) or any military stuff like ancient times, star wars and super heroes - like stryker said, those are all about conflict, fighting and weapons.
Some are real life based and some fictional but in the end many games, books, movies and stories resolve around conflict. It creates high stakes and often creates good plots.

Now some people are not into fictional stuff at all but have interest in real life conflicts - some only in ancient stuff some are interested in more modern day things.
I mean you could collect every day putfits of different eras and it those can be awesome too. But i can see and understand the big interest in the military side of each era.

You're right, It would have helped to clarify that in my initial question. I was referring to modern tanks, planes and uniforms type stuff.
And I can definitely relate to the incredible potential in story-telling!

I think humans are at our best when struggling and fighting to survive. Whenever we are content we stagnate. Peace leads to indolence, which is the surest way to destroy a civilization.

Diana -- thanks for asking the question and responding with such measured understanding. I wanted to comment in more depth, but I don't want to get into arguments with other people on your thread. Let's just say I take some issue with assertions that 'people' and 'humanity' are inherently violent and that there's no other viable way of existing. Or that peace is somehow a bad thing. I have my own thoughts on *who* is violent and why, but I will leave it at that. ;p

ETA: I did just want to add though, that without military figures we probably wouldn't have this hobby in the first place. After all, it started with subjects like GI Joe and Action Man, and then branched out into popular culture from there.

shazzdan wrote:I think humans are at our best when struggling and fighting to survive. Whenever we are content we stagnate. Peace leads to indolence, which is the surest way to destroy a civilization.

I think humans are at our best when facing challenges and overcoming obstacles. When we settle for "content" we stagnate. Peace leads to freedom and gives room to our innate creativity. 
A healthy human being always seeks to be part of a tribe and to contribute to its well being as a whole, but I dare not go any further on this subject as it is getting increasingly hard to stay on philosophical and psychological terms and it is also getting too big. ^^ 

skywalkersaga wrote:Diana -- thanks for asking the question and responding with such measured understanding. I wanted to respond in more depth, but I don't want to get into arguments with other people on your thread. Let's just say I disagree completely with the assertions that 'people' and 'humanity' are inherently violent and that there's no other viable way of existing. Or that peace is somehow a bad thing. I have my own thoughts on *who* is violent and why, but I will leave it at that. ;p

Heh, yes, I understand that it is tricky to answer the question without getting political, but I appreciate the effort, and it did shed some light on the subject matter.

I like the way you quoted and highlighted the essence of each reply, in some cases reducing our verbose blathering down to a single world. Nicely done.

Your initial question, I thought, was quite clear: What is it you like about military or specifically collecting it? (Italics and bold-face added) That is what I tried to answer. There was no need that I could see, in answering the original question, to challenge the positions or politics of anyone else. Nor were you asking us to opine on why we think others might collect military figures. You were quite clear in that you were asking for individual, subjective responses about our individual collecting. It was a well-phrased question, and in theory should have been relatively easy to answer in a straightforward way.

You were not asking about a broader perspective on the purpose or "value" of war. You were asking about what attracts each respondent to military figures. That is what I tried to answer.

And yeah... Sailor Moon in battle armor – I can definitely dig that! (You're making me want to re-pre-order those Imperial Guardians! Although now that the three Saintess Knights in 1/6 scale have been announced, the choice has become more complicated!)

davidd wrote:I like the way you quoted and highlighted the essence of each reply, in some cases reducing our verbose blathering down to a single world. Nicely done.

Your initial question, I thought, was quite clear: What is it you like about military or specifically collecting it? (Italics and bold-face added) That is what I tried to answer. There was no need that I could see, in answering the original question, to challenge the positions or politics of anyone else. Nor were you asking us to opine on why we think others might collect military figures. You were quite clear in that you were asking for individual, subjective responses about our individual collecting. It was a well-phrased question, and in theory should have been relatively easy to answer in a straightforward way.

You were not asking about a broader perspective on the purpose or "value" of war. You were asking about what attracts each respondent to military figures. That is what I tried to answer.

And yeah... Sailor Moon in battle armor – I can definitely dig that! (You're making me want to re-pre-order those Imperial Guardians! Although now that the three Saintess Knights in 1/6 scale have been announced, the choice has become more complicated!)

Haha! Thank you. And I still value the question (which I didn't perceive as an attack or challenge even) because I learned a lot about my own prejudice and world view today.
And the highlighting of key sections is something I've learned to do to get faster answers from overly busy people at work.
And sorry about the strain to your wallet!  

I’m not sure what I was on about earlier, but in retrospect, it had very little to do with the topic at hand.

My father was in the military, and my early childhood was spect living on military bases, so there’s an affinity there, but aside from five cheesy pseudo military pin-up girls (I love that!) it hasn’t translated to my action figure collection.

My apologies. This was originally a follow up to the previous post which is no longer relevant.

Just to address one thing that came up -- I agree that mankind is best when cooperating with each other -- but that cooperation was necessary in the first place to ensure the survival of the individual, the family, the tribe, etc. Against challenges and violence -- by the forces of nature or by those of other individuals or families or tribes, etc. That is just fact, not how things would be ideally. If people can find enough common ground to set their differences aside, then at least violence internal to the group can be largely eliminated and reduced to the mere threat of corrective violence. Since we are not supposed to get into politics (as per forum policy), I will not muse on why I think the current outlook for that is surprisingly bleak.

GubernatorFan wrote:... I will not muse on why I think the current outlook for that is surprisingly bleak.

But you could "muse" on why you find Star Wars action figures appealing on a personal level (which you have already touched upon, albeit briefly).  I'm sure that further elucidation would be of some interest, as well as being on-topic.

davidd wrote:

GubernatorFan wrote:... I will not muse on why I think the current outlook for that is surprisingly bleak.

But you could "muse" on why you find Star Wars action figures appealing on a personal level (which you have already touched upon, albeit briefly).  I'm sure that further elucidation would be of some interest, as well as being on-topic.

Star Wars is what I like to call “cartoon violence”. I can watch Star Wars, Marvel, pro wrestling, etc., but put something like Yellowstone on, and I will literally walk out of the room.

I collected them, when I did, because my father was really into watching and reading material on various wars and I liked having things that engaged him.  It's a cop-out, but that's literally the reason for me because it is rare that a military uniform is interesting enough for me to personally look at and go "wow that looks good."  Ancient history military from thousand plus years ago is maybe a little different.

I do think, for whatever psychological reason, I engage with similar looking things differently when they're based on fictional characters vs real-life, as well.  It's an interesting subject to unpack, honestly.  I haven't served, so I might feel a little weird buying/displaying something based around my country's modern day military operations, like I don't have the right.  I don't feel weird buying Duke or Flint from Gi Joe, however, if you get what I'm saying. How long ago the military uniform/figure is from is a similar factor that could affect how I feel about that.

As a kid I fell in love with Star Wars because it showed me a kind of bravery that was inspiring. It wasn't about war or uniforms/outfits. It was about a kid rising to the occasion becoming a man. Ultimately these stories all tell of The Heros Journey, which resonates deeply.

I don't know these kinds of stories attached to real war history. Sure, I've valued watching movies about heroes of war, but usually the casual ones and not so much those in uniform.

Around 2010 I wrote a script for a short film about Operation Anthropoid and performed quite a bit of research on it. I can imagine if they were to release figures of those two soldiers I would consider getting them because I would then have a specific story of bravery attached to them.

I come from a long line of military service in my family dating back to American Civil War and possibly beyond but so far my father hasn't gotten much prior to the 1840s. I grew up watching the classic war films from the 50s and 60s on TNT, especially on Memorial Day Weekend. Both my grandfathers served in WWII but never talked that much about it, not because they had bad memories of it but more because they were what we referred to nowadays as General Support MOSs and just did their part as they said (my Mom's Dad was a Company Clerk in a Medical Evacuation Unit spending more time on a ship traversing the Atlantic bringing the severely wounded back from the ETO then actually in theater; my father's Dad served at the end of the war in the Coast Guard). My father's uncle served as a Company Commander of a Tank Company in the 3rd Armored Division. I never met him, but my father told me stories that he told him and it was eye opening. The one that I took to heart was how he explained to my father how he rose from a lowly Private to commanding a Company which he said 'If you didn't die, you just kept getting promoted to replace those that were killed.' I had other uncles serve in Vietnam, two of which were killed. When I enlisted, I was the first to do so in thirty years. I went because I really wanted to be a Soldier, I didn't know that five months and five days later the US would be at war.

When Iraq kicked off, I was part of the follow-up forces (4th Infantry Division) and was pissed that we missed out on a lot of the heavy fighting and was regulated to mopping up skirmishes. Remember standing around on the outskirts of Tikrit after taking Saddam's Presidential Complex just totally depressed that I missed out on the 'Real War' and my battle buddies were in agreement. *Sigh* If we only had known what was to come later on we probably would've wished for a straight up fight then what we found ourselves in. I spent nearly four years there; going from a wide-eye, 'let's get 'em' attitude Private in '03 to a tired and dejected Squad Leader that had lost all faith in what we were doing there by '09. That last deployment I was bumping heads with everyone with that wide-eye, 'let's get 'em' attitude, and of course Sadr's last uprising in March '08 didn't really help my perspective at all. I got reprimanded by my Company CO when he asked me what my primary mission was there, to which I replied 'to get everyone in my squad back home to their families and loved ones' to which he asked what was my secondary and I replied 'to help get everyone in this company back home to their families and loved ones'. He paused for a second and then asked me about my third to which I said 'to get my ass home in one piece, sir.' He informed me I had the wrong mindset and that we were there to help to people of Iraq to which I said, 'Sir, with all due respect, but I don't give a flying ^()_@ about them anymore. I hate everything about them and everything about this God forsaken hellhole part of the world. I only feel bad for the kids because they don't know any better.'

Looking back at then, I really thought we were the good guys in '03, over throwing Saddam and his brutal regime and freeing the populace from him. But all we did was create a power vacuum. We caused all the grief and suffering that came later and because of it we gave birth to something even more brutal years after the last troops left in Dec '11. I never served in Afghanistan, but with both countries on both fronts, we look back at it now and say 'what was it all for?' Twenty years of fighting and for what?

Diane you stated 'I have zero interest and there is a kind of taboo attached to it, as if it was a glorification of war, which of course is a nono.'

As one who has seen that Beast, I can tell you this without a doubt in my mind that there is no glory in war. War is all encompassing and a Beast that devours everything it encounters without remorse or pity and transforms civilize humans back to their most primitive state of mind - survival. Anyone who has seen it and lived it, hopes that our children will never endure what we had to endure. But, as a fictional war veteran once said, 'But it ain't your country who asks you; it's a few men up top who want it. Old men start it, young men fight it, nobody wins, everybody in the middle dies, and nobody tells the truth!'

I look fondly back at my fellow brothers and sisters, we were asked to do a job without question and we did so. You called it 'the glory days and brotherhood, patriotism and loyalty, the good fight'. I thought I was part of the good fight, but now I know we were just lied to by the politicians for some alternate motive that only time will tell. No victory parades down through Time Square for us.

I don't collect any modern military figures since I have no desire. I do collect WWII figures although, not because of my family history but because of my wife's family history. Most of her family on her father's side still resided in Germany in the 30s, but her grandparents on her father's side left in 1932 for the United States. They did go back for a family reunion in 1936 (I found a photo album when we were cleaning out her father's place after he passed away). Since then we've been researching her side of the family and it's been fairly eye opening experience. So its more of honoring both sides of our families that found themselves on opposite sides, only for their following kin to meet up decades later that I collect them. The same goes for my ancestors that fought in the American Civil War.

I don't think there is anything political above, just my perspective since I really don't like any politicians. If there is anything just let me know or I'm sure the Admins will edit it out.

Your family's service may not be appreciated by all but it is appreciated by me. Kipling noted the hypocrisy of humanitarians who "make mock of uniforms that guard them while they sleep."

Orwell commented on Kipling: "He sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them."

John Le Carré voiced a similar sentiment in The Spy Who Came in From the Cold, "We do disagreeable things so that ordinary people here and elsewhere can sleep safely in their beds at night."

Richard Grenier summed up the above sentiments in his newspaper article in 1993: "When the country is in danger, the military’s mission is to wreak destruction upon the enemy. It’s a harsh and bloody business, but that’s what the military’s for. As George Orwell pointed out, people sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."