Painting seamless bodies (NSFW?)

MarkEl wrote:Well done on the Yondu figure GubFan.  The blue match looks well blended to me.  Really cool results.  

Thank you very much, Mark! The experimentation continues, I might be able to post on a new, darker African body in a few moments.

I just completed (more or less) another oil pastel on a TBLeague/Phicen silicone body. I was trying to match the skin tone on the HT Finn head. The challenge was in part because oil pastels tend to come with very limited brown options, and of course are not as blendable as conventional paints (not only is oil pastel blendability somewhat limited, but it also varies from product to product, or so I read). I think I got pretty close with several coats of brown, red, blue, green, and more brown, although the protective powder dulled the color a little bit, detracting from the closeness of the match (the head is a bit warmer in tone). The relative shininess of the head sculpt also detracts from that closeness in the photos. This time matching the hands and feet painted with acrylics to the body was easier. At any rate, I was able to make a darker African body, which I might retouch in future, when more oil pastels arrive.

Here it is, first by itself, then compared to the first attempt (with a different Mike Tyson head than before). Let me know what you think and if you have helpful suggestions.

Great Work on the Fighters, Gubernator!  I insert one of the Swamptroll Pics here, because she has a Painted seamless body and shows what is possible with a pichen body
For example, the Barbarian Guy next to the Troll has the same Body like her.

Thank you, Ephiane! And thank you again for teaching us the oil pastel trick and continuing to exhibit ever more complex work, like your troll. It is almost impossible to imagine that her body is a modified version of the barbarian next to her, what with the ankle and wrist extensions, and the built-up chest and shoulders.

Damn GubernatorFan, you really did a hell of a good job matching those head sculpts. You mentioned the issue with the noticeable difference in texture, but I think that's something we deal with on all plastic heads on rubber bodies. It's just that much more apparent to you since you're the one doing it.

Ephiane, I'm still completely awed by that troll body. Seeing her next to the barbarian just makes it all the more apparent how complete that transformation is. Inspiring work as always.

ReverendSpooky wrote:Damn, GubernatorFan, you really did a hell of a good job matching those head sculpts.  You mentioned the issue with the noticeable difference in texture, but I think that's something we deal with on all plastic heads on rubber bodies.  It's just that much more apparent to you since you're the one doing it.

Thank you very much, ReverendSpooky! In some earlier posts in this thread, Ephiane has actually outlined a technique to make the silicone surface a bit shinier, which might actually help in cases like these.

GubernatorFan wrote:

ReverendSpooky wrote:Damn, GubernatorFan, you really did a hell of a good job matching those head sculpts.  You mentioned the issue with the noticeable difference in texture, but I think that's something we deal with on all plastic heads on rubber bodies.  It's just that much more apparent to you since you're the one doing it.

Thank you very much, ReverendSpooky! In some earlier posts in this thread, Ephiane has actually outlined a technique to make the silicone surface a bit shinier, which might actually help in cases like these.

Oh, I remember! I'm itching to take a crack at it myself, but haven't had the right project yet. Still, quite inspired by all your success.

ReverendSpooky wrote:Oh, I remember!  I'm itching to take a crack at it myself, but haven't had the right project yet.  Still, quite inspired by all your success.

I've picked up a few more African heads for the painted bodies, Muhammad Ali and Will Smith among them.

These are all amazing! Gives me hope for some of my planned SW 'alien' customs.

Not sure I'd have the courage to try this on a tbleague until I was able to get the technique right. Does anyone know if the oil pastels would work on something that was partially seamless, like the PopToys bodies? I am trying to avoid having to resort to using fabric dye, if possible...

That reminds me, is the technique for using the chalk pastels similar to that of applying the oil pastels, or do you have to grind them up and apply them with a brush or something? I think I would prefer the more dusty look of chalk, but do the chalk pastels have more of a risk of staining, marking, or transferring colour to clothes/accessories/ one's hands/other figures? I like to handle my figures a lot, which is one of the reasons I haven't tried anything like this yet, I feared it would be too messy...

And GubernatorFan - What kind of powder are you using to 'set' the oil pastels?

skywalkersaga wrote:These are all amazing! Gives me hope for some of my planned SW 'alien' customs.

That reminds me, is the technique for using the chalk pastels similar to that of applying the oil pastels, or do you have to grind them up and apply them with a brush or something? ... I like to handle my figures a lot, which is one of the reasons I haven't tried anything like this yet, I feared it would be too messy...

And GubernatorFan - What kind of powder are you using to 'set' the oil pastels?

Thank you very much. Ephiane invented the technique, I simply ran with it. You list the exact reason I didn't try to apply chalk powder instead. It seemed too impermanent and transferable to me. I don't know that you have to use anything to "set" the oil pastels -- just rub them down a lot with a make-up sponge, until you notice they do not transfer on (say) a test piece of fabric or paper towel. I do use silicone finishing powder (NYX Professional Makeup Studio Finishing Powder Translucent Finish) because I would do so on the seamless bodies after washing them anyway (and you would have washed them to remove the protective powder before applying the oil pastels in the first place), but I am not certain if it is actually necessary after the silicone surface has been covered with the oil pastel. I figure, better safe than sorry. By the way, you could use starch or baby powder just as well.

The above works for the silicone flesh used by Phicen/TBLeague. Jiaou uses a different rubbery flesh, although in theory it works pretty much the same way, so we're guessing the above would apply. Similarly with other rubbery seamless coverings, but they might all be something else, so you might stumble upon something that defies the technique.

EDIT: We have since found out that Phicen/TBLeague actually uses TPE (not silicone), just like Jiaou, although the two TPE materials might be slightly different.

GubernatorFan wrote: [...] I don't know that you have to use anything to "set" the oil pastels -- just rub them down a lot with a make-up sponge, until you notice they do not transfer on (say) a test piece of fabric or paper towel. I do use silicone finishing powder (NYX Professional Makeup Studio Finishing Powder Translucent Finish) because I would do so on the seamless bodies after washing them anyway (and you would have washed them to remove the protective powder before applying the oil pastels in the first place), but I am not certain if it is actually necessary after the silicone surface has been covered with the oil pastel. I figure, better safe than sorry. By the way, you could use starch or baby powder just as well.

The above works for the silicone flesh used by Phicen/TBLeague. Jiaou uses a different rubbery flesh, although in theory it works pretty much the same way, so we're guessing the above would apply. Similarly with other rubbery seamless coverings, but they might all be something else, so you might stumble upon something that defies the technique.

Ahh, ok, I understand. I was confused and thought the powder was for the oil pastels, but it's for the actual body itself and is akin to you would use anyway to add to the surface so it doesn't get too 'sticky', is that right?

I will bear in mind the potential differences between the silicone , jiaou type material, and the 'partially seamless' (rubber?) body coverings. I have no idea what the PopToys covering is made of, but I'll try to see if I can find out how effective the oil technique is on it (if it even works at all).

Another question: has anyone attempted to use ink-based, permanent watercolours on these kinds of bodies? Ether the silicone or on other types of rubber?

And finally, I saw that you'd tried permanent marker on the Jiaou experiment. I'm curious if one could colour an entire body, or even just the visible portions of it with a permanent marker? I'd even settle for being able to colour just (parts of) the rubber torso  on jointed bodies that way. (I'm trying to do anything and everything to avoid having to do the 'immersion in fabric dye' method, lol.)

skywalkersaga wrote:Ahh, ok, I understand. I was confused and thought the powder was for the oil pastels, but it's for the actual body itself and is akin to you would use anyway to add to the surface so it doesn't get too 'sticky', is that right?

Correct. I suppose I thought the finishing powder might lessen any potential chance that the oil pastel might transfer, but the primary motivation was that it is supposed to be applied to the silicone surface to keep it from getting sticky.

skywalkersaga wrote: I will bear in mind the potential differences between the silicone , jiaou type material, and the 'partially seamless' (rubber?) body coverings. I have no idea what the PopToys covering is made of, but I'll try to see if I can find out how effective the oil technique is on it (if it even works at all).

Just checked it again (didn't want to get the acronym wrong): Jiaou's rubbery flesh is supposedly TPE (Thermoplastic elastomer, of which there are apparently different kinds).

skywalkersaga wrote: Another question: has anyone attempted to use ink-based, permanent watercolours on these kinds of bodies? Ether the silicone or on other types of rubber?

I haven't tried watercolor, but I doubt it will work. Acrylic paint did not.

skywalkersaga wrote: And finally, I saw that you'd tried permanent marker on the Jiaou experiment. I'm curious if one could colour an entire body, or even just the visible portions of it with a permanent marker? I'd even settle for being able to colour just (parts of) the rubber torso  on jointed bodies that way. (I'm trying to do anything and everything to avoid having to do the 'immersion in fabric dye' method, lol.)

What I tried wasn't a normal permanent marker (like a Sharpie) but acrylic marker (by Molotow, admittedly that is also supposedly permanent), on a Jiaou body. For smaller details (like tattoos) on areas that are not subject to much stretching (i.e., not joints) it might work well enough. At the joints, when they are stretched/bent, you see cracks or gaps on the stretched-out part of the surface. Your question about the permanent marker comes down to whether the permanent marker can in effect cause a permanent stain on the surface that will not rub off or be absorbed and fade away. I suspect it will not flake or have gaps like the acrylic, but apart from that I don't know whether it would be successful. I have moved since my experiments and my experimental subjects were either tossed or temporarily misplaced, so I can't do a quick TBLeague or Jiaou check.

I understand and share your reluctance to use the "immersion in fabric dye" method -- apparently results are usually uneven, require multiple immersions, and are accompanied by infernal stench. That's why I went with the oil pastel, which is apparently both easy and successful, at least on the Phicen/TBLeague silicone bodies. Other complicated methods include silicone paint (which requires mixable dyes, a respirator mask and other equipment), or (for small details and a removable solution) mixing silicone paint (like silc pig) with silicone glue. I used this for painting unpainted nipples on the silicone bodies. The result was quite decent, but if you wanted to undo it, you could scrape/rub it off the underlying silicone surface.

Thank you for all the clarifications, GubernatorFan. You are likely right that watercolour will not work, but my reason for thinking *permanent* watercolour might have a chance of staining it is that it's ink-based, and I was sort of thinking that maybe it would have a similar effect as the fabric dye, but I'm probably totally off on that. :p

And thanks also for the clarification re: the markers. I have a jointed body that I am hoping to colour (as well as some potential seamless ones), but it has a rubber torso which I has been proving an issue.  I was thinking to just paint the hard plastic limbs with Vallejo acrylics, and then use a permanent marker on the areas of the torso that will be showing (the upper body, neck, shoulders, etc). But maybe this is a ridiculous idea. If so, then colouring the jointed bodies without resorting to fabric dye will prove just as challenging if not even moreso than the seamless ones. I will try to experiment with the permanent marker idea, just in case...

This thread has at least given me hope for the seamless bodies, and may mean I'll even be able to use that smaller s27b type body (albeit for a different character than I'd original planned) after all. : )

Another question for GubernatorFan, and apologies if it is a daft one, but... does the Nyx finishing powder 'transfer' at all onto hands , gloves, or other figures (when handling a 'painted' seamless figure I mean)? I realize that the whole point of it is to 'finish' the makeup so it doesn't smudge, but does the powder *itself* rub off onto other things?

skywalkersaga wrote:Another question for GubernatorFan, and apologies if it is a daft one, but... does the  Nyx finishing powder 'transfer' at all onto hands , gloves, or other figures (when handling a 'painted' seamless figure I mean)? I realize that the whole point of it is to 'finish' the makeup so it doesn't smudge, but does the powder *itself* rub off onto other things?

No, not after you have rubbed/brushed it onto the body (you will know you have done that when it basically blends in). It certainly doesn't damage anything, except your chances at flash photography (if you use flash, you will end up seeing chalky areas all over your figure -- or your own skin if you use it on yourself -- but there isn't much you can do about that). Remember to get the translucent version of the powder.

GubernatorFan wrote:

No, not after you have rubbed/brushed it onto the body (you will know you have done that when it basically blends in). It certainly doesn't damage anything, except your chances at flash photography (if you use flash, you will end up seeing chalky areas all over your figure -- or your own skin if you use it on yourself -- but there isn't much you can do about that). Remember to get the translucent version of the powder.

Ah, gotcha -- thanks for 'clearing' that up for me. ;D

Oh wait, @Ephiane , is your "fool" a Mr. Been head?  LOL LOve it!

Man, I'm inspired to do this now, though messing with such an expensive body scares me, LOL.  However, on the other hand, sometimes I do see stained bodies up for sale, and I'd think that wouldn't be a problem!... I'm curious if anyone tried this with chalk pastels, as I have a ton of those.  They're more desirable for using on resin.  @Gubernator you say you use a protective powder, and I see that stuff up for sale, but I'd like to know if baby powder is just as good?  I got a lot of that on hand

Oh, nevermind, I see you use translucent powder, which I presume would keep it from looking weirdly powdery and chalky

Anyways, this info is golden!

Peaches wrote:Gubernator you say you use a protective powder, and I see that stuff up for sale, but I'd like to know if baby powder is just as good?  I got a lot of that on hand Oh, nevermind, I see you use translucent powder, which I presume would keep it from looking weirdly powdery and chalky

You're welcome. The translucent finishing powder is only chalky IF you happen to have some of it not sufficiently absorbed into the silicone surface (often hard to tell) WHEN you take a photograph WITH a flash. Otherwise, in normal light and non-flash photography it does not appear chalky at all. According to everything I have heard, talcum powder and baby powder and even starch are supposed to do the trick (of protecting the silicone surface) just as well.

Update: can confirm that permanent marker (alcohol-based) most definitely does NOT work on the rubber torsos on the regular jointed bodies. Have just attempted (on an already-damaged PopToys body), and all it did was bleed onto the limbs and then rub off the rubber, which leaves me back to square one.

It's pretty much what I expected, but I had to rule it out for myself just in case.

At this point it seems like colouring a seamless body is actually EASIER than trying to stain, paint, or dye a rubber-torso'ed, jointed one... O.o

Skywalkersaga, if you’re doing a SW alien, do you need to use a female body that has any rubber at all? Or can you use one that is all plastic? Are exposed joints an issue? Or will they be covered?

Yeah, no it's not necessary that it's a rubber torso.  Most of the time I'm not particular about whether my bodies are jointed, hard plastic, rubber, seamless, doll-bodies....as long as they are the right *height* and the overall effect looks like the character, I'm pretty easy going about it. : )

Now, at the moment I have a number of in-progress and/or planned figures, and many of them are indeed female SW aliens.  But because I already have several extra bodies, most of which have rubber torsos, on-hand (ones that didn't work out for the non-alien projects, lol), I've been trying to use what I had, before buying even more.

So, yes, for most of these figures, I have planned the outfits strategically so that that the rubber areas won't show, and all I will have to paint are the harder plastic limbs. For one of them -- a younger character -- I have even been planning to use an Obitsu doll body, as it is all hard plastic and easier to paint the right colour.

BUT, there is one particular (version of a) character that I would really like to do that not only has an outfit that shows skin in the 'rubber' areas, but which also needs to be a particular height next to some of the other characters, and this is where it has been getting tricky for me. Because I have yet to find an 'all hard plastic' body that is the right height *and* body shape/bust-size/stature. This is why I had been trying to make the PopToys body work, as it met that criteria ...the only problem being that I had not realized at the time that I was planning it all out that rubber was almost impossible to 'paint'.

But, after reading this thread, I realized that I had been under an erroneous impression that seamless tbleague bodies and the regular rubber jointed bodies were all just as hard as each other to colour. I now see that , given the success of Ephiane's method, it seems that it's the latter that are more difficult, and which I'd have to resort to fabric dye to colour....something I'm not prepared to do at this stage.  

So, I am thinking that I may have to use a tbleague body for the above-mentioned project after all. But again, I'd need to have it in-hand to check next to the other figures to make sure it's the right height before proceeding. I'm definitely considering it, but first I was just trying to be thorough, especially since I've already had so many disappointments and I'm tired of buying bodies that don't work. I know it's all part of the hobby, but it's getting rather disheartening (and expensive) .... ;p

Yeah, unfortunately, that’s the thing with this hobby. Trial and error gets to be VERY expensive, but that is pretty much the only way to do this. Tips and advice can only go so far. I have yet to attempt this body painting technique on a TBLeague body again (I tried it once, and it was an absolute disaster). I’d actually like to see a video tutorial on how folks have done this correctly.

Stryker2011 wrote:Yeah, unfortunately, that’s the thing with this hobby. Trial and error gets to be VERY expensive, but that is pretty much the only way to do this. Tips and advice can only go so far. I have yet to attempt this body painting technique on a TBLeague body again (I tried it once, and it was an absolute disaster). I’d actually like to see a video tutorial on how folks have done this correctly.

Yeah, I understand, and have realized that. At least I'm able to use the extra bodies for some other figures, so they're not totally wasted purchases. If anything, this hobby is forcing me to be more creative and resourceful, which is the good kind of challenge. : )  I'm sure I'll figure something out -- was really just sharing my (lack of) results in case anyone else was daft stubborn enough to try it for themselves too. ;D

And I completely agree, it would be helpful to see the full process for the oil pastel (or even regular pastel!) technique(s)....

Apologies for spamming the thread, but I have some questions regarding *modifying* seamless bodies (not painting-related). I searched, but couldn't find a thread dedicated to that specifically -- should I start a new one, or is there already a space for discussing it somewhere that I missed? I just wanted to ask before going too far off-topic here...

skywalkersaga wrote:Apologies for spamming the thread, but I have some questions regarding *modifying* seamless bodies (not painting-related). I searched, but couldn't find a thread dedicated to that specifically -- should I start a new one, or is there already a space for discussing it somewhere that I missed? I just wanted to ask before going too far off-topic here...

Well, you haven't spammed it yet. If it is a question not dealing with the above (which is about painting), why not start a new topic/thread in the general talk section?

Thanks, will do! Just had wanted to make sure I hadn't missed an existing one. : )

While it’s not necessarily about painting the whole body, has anyone beside Very Cool had luck applying tattoos to a seamless body?

GubernatorFan, translucent powder is also known as setting powder in the makeup works, and some companies, like Laura Mercier, make translucent setting powder specifically for darker tones. Some of that might help keep your Finn body from getting dulled down with light setting powder.

Aria wrote:GubernatorFan, translucent powder is also known as setting powder in the makeup works, and some companies, like Laura Mercier, make translucent setting powder specifically for darker tones.  Some of that might help keep your Finn body from getting dulled down with light setting powder.

Thank you, Aria, I will keep that in mind in future. Just in case you happen to know, any tips for a powder with the appropriate properties (i.e., good for silicone and keeping it non-tacky) that does not show up too obviously in flash photos?