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STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head

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GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
Since I know some of you are picking up the second release of the HT ESB Vader (which may or may not be changed in some detail or other from the first release), I thought I'd share some information on some easy and recent mods.

I have not been willing to take a plunge and pay for a full Hot Toys Vader set after getting my Sideshow "second" Vader quite a few years ago. But I have bought many loose parts and reconstituted largely HT-based ANH/RO and ESB Vaders. With their tendency to lose balance and fall flat on their faces, damaging the tiny tusks (and some of the latter becoming irretrievably lost), I ended up with more than one head, and so have felt even more comfortable to make modifications to these expensive pieces.

Something I did to both the ANH/RO and ESB heads is line the inside of the lenses with bare metal foil, so that you can catch a little glimmer of red in the "eyes" (HT made them translucent, but it doesn't really show on the figure). The other thing I did is to alter the position of the helmet over the masked head -- the very first ANH release and at least the first ESB release have it wrong. In both instances, it sat too high, and in the second (ESB) instance, it was also meeting the face at a wrong angle (essentially, it was sitting too low and too far back to be screen accurate). Just remember that if you try to emulate this, proceed carefully and at your own risk!

Anyway, without further ado:

1a-c. The Hot Toys ESB Vader head has a good sculpt, but especially when looked at from the front can look off and outright disturbing. The problem is that the helmet proper sits too far back and too far up, meeting the "face" at the wrong angle and exposing the "eyebrows" over the lenses far too much. The front rim of the helmet should hang lower and farther forward over the "nose."

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves10

2a-c. The helmet proper is designed to be removable, as it snaps onto the top portion of the mask assembly.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves11

3a-c. The top part of the mask assembly is glued only at its front, and with a little bit of pressure can be made to snap off. After this you can basically snap it in and out of place as you see fit.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves12

4a-c. The front part of the mask, fitting over the face, is also a separate piece, which is glued to the bottom only at the lower edge. With some gentle pressure you can carefully make it snap off without breaking it (I didn't know this the first time I was modifying this head a couple of years ago and went another way, but this is a much better approach).

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves13

5a-c. The partial head sculpt is also removable, although that is not something you have to do to modify the lenses. I only show this here for completeness.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves14

6a-c. Getting back to the facial part of the mask. The lenses are delightfully translucent, but you can only appreciate that if you handle the piece separately and look through them at a light source -- here I used a flash light to illustrate (6a). Then I cut a small rectangular piece of Bare-Metal chrome foil, enough to cover the inside of the lenses (6b). You apply the adhesive side to the inside of the lenses, then rub over it with a q-tip. This ensures perfect adhesion and removes any tiny folds or creases. With the foil lining the inside of the lenses, you can see a glimmer of red looking at them from the outside, provided they are hit by sufficient light (6c).

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves15

7a-d. Compare the before and after look, without (7a-b) and with (7c-d) the helmet. Note that without direct light on the lenses, they would look just black.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves16

8a-d. I've been saving empty Oscillococcinum containers from whenever I've been sick, intending to use them for 1:6 kitbashing. While I imagined them serving as termuses or other types of vessels, the caps prove a good fit into the pre-existing hole at the very top of the head (8a). I lined the exposed part of the head around the cap with some plastic from a ziplock bag (8b). I began to construct a makeshift structure out of Kneadatite (the blue and yellow green stuff) by winding "snakes" round the cap and atop the plastic cover (8c). The plastic cover is so that the "structure" would not stick to the head itself and would remain removable. All told, I needed the "structure" to lift the helmet up at the back while keeping low in the front, and to push it towards the front. I also provided a makeshift protrusion to fit into the hole of the helmet (8d). Yes, I know what it looks like, and if you comment on that, it would be bad karma (so don't). Smile

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves17

9a-c. With the structure still soft and malleable, I experimented with the helmeted look, adding material until satisfied with the way it sat. Then I let it cure. Here is the before (9a and 9c) and after (9b and 9d) comparison. Perhaps the difference looks cosmetic to most, but here's a Vader look I can appreciate without misgivings.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves18

10a-b. Checking out the overall effect of the modified head on the body.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves19

11a-c. Note that you can still see the "eyebrows," but only (and correctly) when lit from a lower angle (11c).

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves25

12a-b. Comparison of the before and after versions with a screenshot from The Empire Strikes Back. I think the helmet works much more accurately; I was not able to reproduce the lighting precisely -- otherwise you would be able to see the "eyebrows" (as above).

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves21

13. Just a comparison of my ANH/RO and ESB/ROTJ modified Vaders.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves22

14. Another of the same.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves23

15. Another of the same with a reconstituted HT ROTJ Luke.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves24

Even if these modifications weren't particularly difficult, one should probably not have to go through so much trouble to improve sets as expensive as this. But the good news is that one can improve the slight imperfections.

I hope this has been useful. What do you think?

#starwars #hottoys #darthvader #custom #mod #kitbash #scifi #male


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Ovy

Ovy
Nice, took me a moment to see the flaw in the original, but after you did it, it's perfect and those much better lenses give it a great badass contrast. I only realised through those bandai stormtroopers that they have green lenses and not black ones, actually.
Looking at the comparison pics, it's completely something different. Looked like some Soviet Gas mask, or that thing from the time machine. 

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Thetimemachine10-1

I don't want to lose karma, but let me comment on Vader's flat white ghost face: I would have totally used the opportunity and given him a simple Lego style smiley face. xD

Stryker2011

Stryker2011
Founding Father
Really cool. Did you have to heat these helmets up before snapping the glue seam? The difference is subtle, but effective. Nice job. And the use of the green poop worked well (there! I said it!).


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HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Bnp4ba10
Credit to greygoose for the signature card

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
Ovy wrote:Nice, took me a moment to see the flaw in the original, but after you did it, it's perfect and those much better lenses give it a great badass contrast. I only realized through those bandai stormtroopers that they have green lenses and not black ones, actually.
Looking at the comparison pics, it's completely something different. Looked like some Soviet Gas mask, or that thing from the time machine. 

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Thetimemachine10-1

I don't want to lose karma, but let me comment on Vader's flat white ghost face: I would have totally used the opportunity and given him a simple Lego style smiley face. xD

I'm glad you liked it, and agree it's an improvement. And now that you showed it, it occurs to me that subconsciously I was reminded of this very Time Machine image by the unmodified head. And it seemed false to me. Yes, the Bandai stormtroopers you put together do have translucent green lenses. As for the lego smiley face... well, that's where there's a difference between the two of us -- you're far more creative than I. I will probably end up going back and doing exactly that -- everything is still removable, by design.

Stryker2011 wrote:Really cool. Did you have to heat these helmets up before snapping the glue seam? The difference is subtle, but effective. Nice job. And the use of the green poop worked well (there! I said it!).

Nooo!

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Giphy

But, really, no, I didn't have to heat them up. Just tried gently to apply pressure, heard some cracking sounds, and proceeded carefully. If it didn't work that way I would have tried heating it. Do not submerge in boiling/hot water, it might damage the paint job! I'm glad you liked it. Perhaps the second release fixes at least some of these issues, but if not, now you know what to do. Smile


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skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Thanks for this, GF! I don't have an ESB Vader but I still appreciate seeing how you did this. He really does look so much better after your alterations, and I love that comparison shot with the iconic Bespin moment. 

What you did with lowering/bringing forward that particular area also gives me ideas for some of my eventual planned helmet mods, even though it's not quite the same mod I have in mind. 

And that pic of the faceless back of the head is hella creepy looking lol.


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"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
skywalkersaga wrote:Thanks for this, GF! I don't have an ESB Vader but I still appreciate seeing how you did this. He really does look so much better after your alterations, and I love that comparison shot with the iconic Bespin moment. 

What you did with lowering/bringing forward that particular area also gives me ideas for some of my eventual planned helmet mods, even though it's not quite the same mod I have in mind. 

And that pic of the faceless back of the head is hella creepy looking lol.

Thank you very much, glad you liked it. And that it is giving you ideas even if not contemplating the same kitbash or working with parts from the same set. What are you planning to do with the ANH helmet? Did you get the earliest version which sits too high?


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ZombieKev


Very nice! The changes seem subtle but really improve the end product!

BAD WOLF-787

BAD WOLF-787
Very Cool! Great tutorial.


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GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
ZombieKev wrote:Very nice!  The changes seem subtle but really improve the end product!

BAD WOLF-787 wrote:Very Cool! Great tutorial.

Thanks guys, I'm very glad you liked it.


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skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
GubernatorFan wrote:
skywalkersaga wrote:Thanks for this, GF! I don't have an ESB Vader but I still appreciate seeing how you did this. He really does look so much better after your alterations, and I love that comparison shot with the iconic Bespin moment. 

What you did with lowering/bringing forward that particular area also gives me ideas for some of my eventual planned helmet mods, even though it's not quite the same mod I have in mind. 

And that pic of the faceless back of the head is hella creepy looking lol.

Thank you very much, glad you liked it. And that it is giving you ideas even if not contemplating the same kitbash or working with parts from the same set. What are you planning to do with the ANH helmet? Did you get the earliest version which sits too high?

You're welcome! Smile And ah, sorry, my tendency to be cryptic about my plans getting the better of me again. The ANH head/helmet I ended up with is the Tarkin ANH one, so it should be ok on that score. I'm more referring to the aesthetic of having that front part lowered over the 'eyebrows' [visor ridges?] a bit more.  Though it may depend on which headsculpt I end up using for the mod -- the Rogue One or the Tarkin. I'm leaning towards the Tarkin set one, since that's the one I have parted out, but we'll see. The main mod I wanted to do is the 'battle damage' I had mentioned a while back. But in addition to that, your post reminded me about the big difference that changing that  eye ridge/visor area can make, just in terms of the 'expression' on the face.  What you did seems to make him look more menacing, and while normally I tend to view OT Vader as a poor, sad, lost puppy who just needs a cuddle Laughing, for a duel scene or something it could be useful to keep in mind. ;')

ETA: Oh, btw... you mentioned that your Vaders tend to keep falling over??? Is that 'just' your kitbashed ones, or is it also a feature of the Hot Toys Vaders in general? I haven't tried to pose the Rogue One Vader without his stand yet, so I was just wanting to  know if it's something I should look out for....


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)

Ovy

Ovy
Yeah, a lot of Time Machine stuff is looming in my subconscious too, it was one of the first movies I watched and my first encounter with cannibal mutants, nuclear bombs and marmalade lava. 

I also spared 17 seconds of my precious time to make Vader happy and cuddly.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdves10

skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
OMG, Ovy.  Laughing


_________________
"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)

Stryker2011

Stryker2011
Founding Father
Time. That faceless Easter peanut head was creepy enough...


_________________
Mark

He who dies with the most toys wins!

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Bnp4ba10
Credit to greygoose for the signature card

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
skywalkersaga wrote:You're welcome! Smile And ah, sorry, my tendency to be cryptic about my plans getting the better of me again. The ANH head/helmet I ended up with is the Tarkin ANH one, so it should be ok on that score. I'm more referring to the aesthetic of having that front part lowered over the 'eyebrows' [visor ridges?] a bit more.  Though it may depend on which headsculpt I end up using for the mod -- the Rogue One or the Tarkin. I'm leaning towards the Tarkin set one, since that's the one I have parted out, but we'll see. The main mod I wanted to do is the 'battle damage' I had mentioned a while back. But in addition to that, your post reminded me about the big difference that changing that  eye ridge/visor area can make, just in terms of the 'expression' on the face.  What you did seems to make him look more menacing, and while normally I tend to view OT Vader as a poor, sad, lost puppy who just needs a cuddle Laughing, for a duel scene or something it could be useful to keep in mind. ;')

ETA: Oh, btw... you mentioned that your Vaders tend to keep falling over??? Is that 'just' your kitbashed ones, or is it also a feature of the Hot Toys Vaders in general? I haven't tried to pose the Rogue One Vader without his stand yet, so I was just wanting to  know if it's something I should look out for....

At this point, I forget whether there is any difference between the Tarkin and RO Vader heads, besides maybe shininess/cleanliness -- I do believe they both got the correct helmet position. The helmet down over the "eyebrows" more is, I suppose, more menacing, although I was really trying to make it look closer to what we see on screen. Seeing too much of the "eyebrows" (except when lit from a low angle) makes him look both "surprised" and off. Smile As far as the broken helmet look (I assume you still mean the one with Luke's face inside it), have you discounted just getting the third party head? If you are making your own, now that I know the face part of the mask can also be snapped off, I would say using the ESB Vader head would be easier, but it would be a difficult and messy mod.

In my experience, due to his relatively great height, heavy head/helmet area, resultant high center of gravity, and problem feet (on Sideshow the boots were sculpted in a way that compromised simple upright vertical stance; in Hot Toys the articulated ankles helped a little but were also a possible point of weakness), all conspire to make all 1:6 Vaders I know prone to losing their balance and falling down on their faces. Which would not be so bad if the damn tusks didn't almost always break off and almost as frequently become lost. (Solution: metal retractable tusks with springs.) Despite using more Sideshow parts in my earliest Vader kitbash which may have compromised the ankles on that one even more, I have since switched to an HT body, ankles, and feet, so in that sense and area my kitbashed Vaders are more reconsituted than kitbashed. Even so, I'm now being very careful with them. If you don't have him on a stand, I'd say watch him like a hawk and better yet spread something soft in front of him at all times to protect his face if he falls.

Ovy wrote:Yeah, a lot of Time Machine stuff is looming in my subconscious too, it was one of the first movies I watched and my first encounter with cannibal mutants, nuclear bombs and marmalade lava. I also spared 17 seconds of my precious time to make Vader happy and cuddly.

It was a memorable movie. The original more than the new version. Awww, he does seem happy on the inside... somehow I always knew it -- perhaps that's when he runs around telling the stomtroopers that he has a son. Yes, Robot Chicken is looming in my subconscious a lot -- a lot more than would make sense given how little I've actually seen of it.

Stryker2011 wrote:That faceless Easter peanut head was creepy enough...

I hope you guys realize that the ESB and ROTJ Vaders are so similar that with an alternate head sculpt (and possibly just the head you impale on that internal peg at the top of the mask assembly base) and a sliced gloved hand, this set could have worked for both movies. But Hot Toys is not going to pass up the chance to make another (ROTJ) Vader later, for $450... Have they made a Vader based on the last scenes from the last prequel? Because that wouldn't surprise me either (like Maul from Solo). I do wish they would do more characters... and of course rein in their prices... but it doesn't look promising.


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skywalkersaga

skywalkersaga
Thanks for the experience-based tips, GF! I do currently have the Rogue One Vader on his official stand, but what you say makes me think it might be an idea to try using a dynamic stand when posing him in more dramatic poses [that, or have him surrounded by a pile of soft, fluffy pillows, lmao]. 

I really have no idea yet how I will do that mask mod, but I always take on board your advice and precautions all the same. :')


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"The happy ending of the fairy tale, the myth, and the divine comedy of the soul, is to be read,
not as a contradiction, but as a transcendence of the universal tragedy of man."

Focusing on the Prequels, Clone Wars, and Original Trilogy eras (NO 'sequels', thanks!)

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
Addendum: Hot Toys ANH Vader head

Since the subject of modifying heads from other HT Vader releases has come up, here are a few looks at my very first (and abandoned) attempt at modifying the HT ANH Vader head. The modifications here were based on those of Jazz Inc, namely lining the inside of the lenses with Bare-Metal foil, sanding off parts of the top of the head and of the inside of the helmet with a Dremel, and sinking in the nose cap (this last part went wrong, as I not only failed to dislodge it, but also accidentally drilled a hole at the top of the the breathing vent over the mouth (fairly inconspicuous, but I know it is there). That, and the added clouding to the paint job after a frustrated attempt at heating the plastic by submerging it in hot water, led to leaving this behind as a failed experiment. However, the photos illustrate what one would be up against, if trying the modify this type of head in one way or another.

1. Note the way the head divides into two halves (front and back), rather than coming apart as the logical sections of the mask assembly as it does on the HT ESB version. This and the interior of the head make modification more difficult, with more material to work around or cut/drill/sand through. The raised parts intended to position the helmet correctly and the protruding top of the head both had to be sanded down so that the helmet would not sit too high.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdvan10

2. Not the best photo, but an attempt to illustrate the added clouding caused by submerging the head into hot water. It is supposed to look worn in ANH, but not this worn. The ANH/RO Vader heads had clearer lenses than the ESB one, hence the much more obvious amber reflection of the light bouncing back from the Bare-Metal foil lining the inside of the lenses.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdvan11

3. After too much sanding, the combination of the modified helmet and modified head ended up with the helmet sitting too low. So I prefer to mix and match: for example, putting the unmodified helmet on a modified head.

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdvan12

4. When it comes to my ANH/RO kitbash, I prefer using the modified helmet with an unmodified head (unmodified in the sense that the top is not sanded off; the lenses are still lined with Bare-Metal foil on the inside; I have never attempted the sinking of the nose cap again). But I do keep an unmodified helmet around just in case I need a different look -- although I do think it does expose the "eyebrows" just a little too much. (Note: the unmodified head and helmet in my kitbash might be from the second (Tarkin set) ANH Vader or from the Rogue One Vader. At this point, I've lost track)

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Htdvan13

I hope this is helpful.


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Stryker2011

Stryker2011
Founding Father
That tears it. If my Sideshow Vader needs adjusting, I’m sending it to you. I would never feel confident enough to do any of this myself. You only have yourself to blame if people want to hire you for this. Each upgrade looks really good, and seems to change the whole thing so much.


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HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Bnp4ba10
Credit to greygoose for the signature card

GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
Stryker2011 wrote:That tears it. If my Sideshow Vader needs adjusting, I’m sending it to you. I would never feel confident enough to do any of this myself. You only have yourself to blame if people want to hire you for this. Each upgrade looks really good, and seems to change the whole thing so much.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Sideshow's Vader is a somewhat different animal. I've never done this much adjustment to that set -- apart from reconstituting it after having tried to use parts of it for my earliest HT-based kitbash. I do know that the design of the boots makes it difficult to have a stable standing pose and he can easily fall on his face and lose his tusks -- in fact when they were first shipping (this may have been fixed since), many of the tusks were damaged in the box and Sideshow made an arrangement with sellers to provide replacement tusks (or rather heads). If a tusk is missing when you first open the box, look carefully in the box or anything you may have taken out of it. I found mine and then used superglue. Should have taken them on their offer, as about a year or two later, he did fall on his head and I didn't find one of the broken off tusks...


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Stryker2011

Stryker2011
Founding Father
I’ll keep an eye out for the tusks issue, and the standing problem. Hopefully they’ve corrected it on this iteration — but I’m generally not averse to using stands to prevent that; I need to get some more stands in fact — I don’t always like the big clunky ones that often come with these figures — they take up way too much space.


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He who dies with the most toys wins!

HotToys - STAR WARS New customizing Hot Toys ESB Vader head Bnp4ba10
Credit to greygoose for the signature card

Theboo-bomb

Theboo-bomb
The change is great, it's also the first time I notice Vader's mask had eyebrows so that's new for me. Also I wasn't expecting the head inside the helmet/mask to be like that, I expected it to have something similar to a fabric covered face not a scared mutant county fair hot dog. 😂


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GubernatorFan

GubernatorFan
Founding Father
Stryker2011 wrote:I’ll keep an eye out for the tusks issue, and the standing problem. Hopefully they’ve corrected it on this iteration — but I’m generally not averse to using stands to prevent that; I need to get some more stands in fact — I don’t always like the big clunky ones that often come with these figures — they take up way too much space.

My Sideshow Vader is back to being complete with genuine parts (although as long as they got the job done it is really good enough); the only issue is the strange surface cracking (?) on the separate helmet intended to be displayed alongside the extra head and face mask. The Vaders you see in this thread are both kitbashes based mostly on the Hot Toys sets, with a few Sideshow pieces thrown in wherever they seemed better to me. They do have HT bodies, ankle pegs, and feet, but I still worry about them flopping down on their faces and the consequences for the tusks.

I completely agree on the use of simpler, smaller stands. I think they are probably still out there and available, but I stocked up on a few inexpensive plain black oval-based crotch-grabber stands years ago (they came with blank black nametag plates -- which you could attach or not, and also with pre-printed stickers with the names of various popular brands). You can actually see them in the photo with the two Vaders and Luke. They are an economical solution in every sense, from size to price.

Theboo-bomb wrote:The change is great, it's also the first time I notice Vader's mask had eyebrows so that's new for me. Also I wasn't expecting the head inside the helmet/mask to be like that, I expected it to have something similar to a fabric covered face not a scared mutant county fair hot dog. 😂

Thank you very much. I'm also glad this was educational. Smile


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