NEW PRODUCT: HHMODEL & HAOYUTOYS: 1/6 Empire Legion-Hunting Ground Fighter Silver Edition/Gold Edition (HH18034/5)

HHMODEL & HAOYUTOYS Imperial Army Hunting Ground Fighter-SCISSOR Silver Edition (Product Code: HH18034)

Barcode: 6974202930073
Configuration List :-1/6
Artificial Head Sculpture
-Movable Body
-8 Replacement Hands
Clothing:
-Helmet (Metal)
- armor (metal)
- chainmail
- skirt
- leg A (metal)
- shoes
Accessories:
- sword (metal)
- mace (metal)
- shield
- floor
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HHMODEL & HAOYUTOYS Imperial Army Hunting Ground Fighter-SCISSOR Silver Edition (Product Code: HH18034)
number: 6974202930073
configuration list:
-1/6 simulation head sculpt
-Movable body
-8 replacement hands
clothing:
-Helmet (metal)
-Armor (metal)
-Chain mail
-Skirt
-Leg armor (metal)
-Shoes
Accessories:
-Sword (metal)
-Mace
-Shield
-Floor






















HHMODEL & HAOYUTOYS Imperial Army Hunting Ground Fighter-SCISSOR Gold Edition (Product Code: HH18035)

Barcode: 6974202930073
Configuration List :-1/6
Artificial Head Sculpture
-Movable Body
-8 Replacement Hands
Clothing:
-Helmet (Metal)
- Armor (Metal)
-Chain Armor
-Skirt
-Leg Armor (Metal)
-Shoes
Accessories:
-Sword (Metal)
-Meteor Hammer (Metal)
-Shield
-Platform
-------------- ------------------------------------------
HHMODEL & HAOYUTOYS Imperial Army Hunting Ground Fighter -SCISSOR gold Edition (Product Code: HH18035)
number: 6974202930073
configuration list:
-1/6 simulation head sculpt
-Movable body
-8 replacement hands
clothing:
-Helmet (metal)
-Armor (metal)
-Chain mail
-Skirt
-Leg armor (metal)
-Shoes
Accessories:
-Sword (metal) -Meteor
hammer
-Shield
-Floor













#newproduct #HHModel #HaoyuToys #EmpireLegion #HuntingHGroundFighter #male #Roman #historical?

Cool sets. If there is legitimate place for mixing fantasy and reality in "historical" sets like these, it would probably be gladiators. Both versions look fun and reasonably plausible in general. The first, yelling head, despite the overly emotive expression is excellent. The second head doesn't work quite as well for me.

General liking, and respect, from me; though unlikely to be a purchase especially as I've generally stayed on the Roman Legions side rather than the Gladiator side of the HHModel Haoyu Toys output.

But surely the elephant in the arena here will be those knees. Also to a lesser extent the elbows, but I can more easily see past those. Quite frankly, these being higher priced figures with no excuse of budget or discounting; and with the rest of the 1/6 world being reasonably into seamless bodies; it triggers an adverse reaction from me.

I'm curious, and perhaps those who know more will chime in: was it actually a thing that a severed limb gladiator would continue his career with a prosthetic, like these guys? I confess, it seems unlikely.

The Scissor was an actual class of gladiator.



This was Kaustic Plastik's version:




I made mine into a Secutor instead.

There's not as much known about Scissores as with some other classes.




While they were heavily armoured, HH have probably gone a bit overboard. They also equipped him with a shield (which is useful to make him into a Secutor), and I don't know what's going on with the mace and flail!


Once again, they've taken a modern source to base their 1/6 on. This time a 54mm Pegaso Models miniature:

A specialized weapon known as a scissor was also used by a class of gladiators called scissores. It consisted of a long, thin cylindrical-shaped pipe terminating in a crescent-shaped blade. A handle inside the tube allowed the gladiator to maintain control. The shape of the blade could produce a serious wound from even the slightest contact.

"The scissores class of gladiators often fought with the retiarius class whose specialty was the net-like weapon they used. So the scissors were used to cut this net and slaughter the opponent. The tube-like structure that is attached to the arm was also used as a shield to block attacks. The shape and nature of the weapon made it versatile, lethal, and capable of blocking an opponent’s blows from stabbing and slashing."

https://ancientimes.blogspot.com/2020/12/roman-scissors-and-scissores-gladiator.html


Both Scissores and Secutors fought the Retiarius class, hence the smooth helmet to help deflect the prongs of the trident and avoid capture by the net. The small eye holes were also protection against the trident. However, the carving doesn't depict such a helmet.

Asta wrote:The Scissor was an actual class of gladiator.

This was Kaustic Plastik's version:



I made mine into a Secutor instead.

There's not as much known about Scissores as with some other classes.

While they were heavily armoured, HH have probably gone a bit overboard. They also equipped him with a shield (which is useful to make him into a Secutor), and I don't know what's going on with the mace and flail!

Once again, they've taken a modern source to base their 1/6 on. This time a 54mm Pegaso Models miniature:

A specialized weapon known as a scissor was also used by a class of gladiators called scissores. It consisted of a long, thin cylindrical-shaped pipe terminating in a crescent-shaped blade. A handle inside the tube allowed the gladiator to maintain control. The shape of the blade could produce a serious wound from even the slightest contact.

"The scissores class of gladiators often fought with the retiarius class whose specialty was the net-like weapon they used. So the scissors were used to cut this net and slaughter the opponent. The tube-like structure that is attached to the arm was also used as a shield to block attacks. The shape and nature of the weapon made it versatile, lethal, and capable of blocking an opponent’s blows from stabbing and slashing."

https://ancientimes.blogspot.com/2020/12/roman-scissors-and-scissores-gladiator.html

Both Scissores and Secutors fought the Retiarius class, hence the smooth helmet to help deflect the prongs of the trident and avoid capture by the net. The small eye holes were also protection against the trident. However, the carving doesn't depict such a helmet.

Useful info, thanks.  But you bring us to something weirdly interesting which could be a fumble on HHModel/Haoyutoys' part.  Have they misinterpreted the prior images to assume the blades were a prosthetic hand replacement rather than just a tube?  There's no way these 1/6 guys are wearing a "long, thin cylindrical-shaped pipe terminating in a crescent-shaped blade [with] a handle inside the tube [that] allowed the gladiator to maintain control."  The Kaustik Plastik version could be, sure. But the hand part on it was both longer and wider than these guys.  The Pegaso proportions are more borderline, maybe it could be interpreted either way.  But I don't think these HHModel/Haoyutoys could possibly have a normal hand under there -- or am I misreading the proportions?

Moonbase Alpha Male wrote:Useful info, thanks.  But you bring us to something weirdly interesting which could be a fumble on HHModel/Haoyutoys' part.  Have they misinterpreted the prior images to assume the blades were a prosthetic hand replacement rather than just a tube?  There's no way these 1/6 guys are wearing a "long, thin cylindrical-shaped pipe terminating in a crescent-shaped blade [with] a handle inside the tube [that] allowed the gladiator to maintain control."  The Kaustik Plastik version could be, sure. But the hand part on it was both longer and wider than these guys.  The Pegaso proportions are more borderline, maybe it could be interpreted either way.  But I don't think these HHModel/Haoyutoys could possibly have a normal hand under there -- or am I misreading the proportions?

lol !

Not being interested in buying the figure I didn't study the photos too closely, and didn't notice that HH had done that.

I'm sure the Pegaso is meant to depict the scissor being gripped. HH, who don't appear to look at original sources, seem to have either made an error, or really have decided to do their own thing.

Since they've attached an arm guard (manica) to the scissor they've made it impossible to drop the weapon lower to imply a hand inside. So, that heavy scissor is attached only by straps.

To be honest, the proportions bothered me too. It is not supposed to be a prosthetic, and it is sitting too high up and it is a little too narrow to convincingly "hide" a "real" hand underneath. I own the KP version, and those tend to be generally more concerned with historical evidence (over which there are still disagreements in interpretation), and not likely to pick this one up, certainly not as a whole set. A relatively surprising feature is the muscle cuirass, which seems too restrictive and probably unusual for gladiators. But Asta seems to be correct in identifying the probable visual source they used for inspiration and reference (thank you, Asta).

Would this work with roman legions ? As i know they did use gladiators in wars

kelo1 wrote:Would this work with roman legions ? As i know they did use gladiators in wars

Probably not without serious customization to bring his armor and equipment in line with those normally used by military units (there was variation, but this is gladiator armor, or some take on it). I suppose he could be in a gladiator revolt against the Romans and their regular troops?

GubernatorFan wrote:

kelo1 wrote:Would this work with roman legions ? As i know they did use gladiators in wars

Probably not without serious customization to bring his armor and equipment in line with those normally used by military units (there was variation, but this is gladiator armor, or some take on it). I suppose he could be in a gladiator revolt against the Romans and their regular troops?

Yeah, seeing this guy in a Roman Legion would be about the equivalent of some guy in a football uniform carrying an M16 in Vietnam.  The Legions were pretty precise as to ranks, rules and roles, as well as gear.  Answering kelo1's comment that "i know they did use gladiators in wars," I think GF has it entirely right that it would probably only have been in the context of the gladiator revolts (Spartacus).  Though it wouldn't be necessarily or exclusively against the Romans, as I remember reading <somewhere> that the Romans going up against the Spartacus revolt sought out Gladiators for additional training, to anticipate fighting styles and tactics that Spartacus might use where eg Vercingetorix wouldn't have.  Which might be an interesting thing to portray, but it would probably be only in training, and the Gladiator wouldn't have his lethal weapons.

I also have a notion (but haven't had a chance to check) that at some point during a civil war, maybe when Septimius Severus advanced on Rome (held by Didius Iulianus) in 193, they armed the gladiators to supplement the troops (but did they arm them as gladiators or as regular troops? -- provided I'm remembering right).

As bodyguards in the streets of Rome and on very rare occasions, as auxiliaries on the battlefield. They weren't trained for this and this was usually done when the army was in DIRE need of men. They also, rather more often used as hired thugs and enforcers by all manner of men.

"The capital itself contributed no contemptible force, namely five Prætorian cohorts, some troops of cavalry, and the first legion, and together with these, 2000 gladiators, a disreputable kind of auxiliaries" - Tacitus

"Cicero's inveterate enemy, one of the most turbulent and corrupt characters of Rome, guilty of mutiny in the army, bribery in the courts, profligacy in his public and private life.; secured Cicero's banishment; hired gladiators to force his own election to the praetorship, but was killed in a broil with Milo's rival gang of ruffians" - Cicero, De Officii This is what i found

Thugs on the streets or Rome that happened to come from among the gladiators would likely not have been armed in the full panoply of the specific types of gladiator, but for more practical comfort and protection.

The quotation from Tacitus is more pertinent, as it attests that gladiators were enrolled among the troops (and, appropriately, among the auxiliary units) in an ad hoc fashion, but it tells us nothing as to how they were equipped in that role.

From Wikipedia article about Gaius Marius: "Once it became obvious that Sulla was going to defy the law and seize Rome by force, Marius attempted to organize a defense of the city using gladiators. Unsurprisingly Marius' ad-hoc force was no match for Sulla's legions. Marius was defeated and fled Rome."During the the Year of Four Emperors, ad69, the need to defend Rome against an incoming army meant that a unit of gladiators was raised. This was done in the format of an auxillary unit, with gladiators led by Roman officers. The plan was for the unit to make a suprise attack during the hours of darkness, but when the hour came, the officers could not be found. The gladiators decided to press ahead with the plan and crossed the river only to find themselves ambushed by a well prepared enemy. Although this is not explicitly stated, one wonders if the officers hadn’t gone over to the other side and confided the plan, upset at having to lead mere slaves.

After three legions were wiped out in Teutoberg Forest, Augustus did not have enough manpower to raise replacements and this left Rome open to a possible attack by German tribesmen. He decided to raise units from freed slaves and appealed to wealthy owners to donate men for the purpose. He was ignored. He asked again, and once more they ignored him. So he had the men rounded up and punished the owners as required. But these new ex-slave units were not equipped with standard Roman arms nor were they ever sent to alongside regular legions.

As bodyguards it was a different matter. Senior officers sometimes bought gladiators as bodyguards and if they went on military assignment, the guards went too, and should that officer be involved in battle no doubt his bodyguards were present. These gladiators also doubled as trainers, showing the soldiers fighting tricks for two reasons - firstly to improve the men’s martial skills and confidence, but also to keep them busy.

Ok, but not all gladiators were slaves. There is a possibility that occasional pieces of gladiator equipment were adopted for specific military deployments -- the manica (armored sleeve) comes to mind. But generally, gladiators would almost certainly look much like the rest of the troops if part of the military.

The musculata looks kinda legionish also the eagle on it, could pass as a general bodyguard.

Locate some copies of Osprey publications on the Roman military online -- either google for images or poke around free registration sites like scribd and 1lib. Recently they even did a multiple volume series on units in the eastern and western provinces, showing more variety than before. That will give you an idea of the range of what is plausible in the ranks (although our friend Dan would surely assert that Osprey publications are not trustworthy for some reason). Osprey even has a book on gladiators, if I recall. Of course, nothing prevents you from having your gladiator wander in among the soldiers and look like no one remembered to tell him it was not that kind of party.

Bodyguards, unless on campaign, were often just in tunics or even tunics and togas, by the way. Not very militarily impressive, I know.

Hmm

I do like how he looks out of all gladiator models i like the heavy armor he wears that is why i try to find him a place in my  roman collection.

Even when they used gladiators in war, they didn't use their gladiator equipment. They were armed the same as the other soldiers.

Some Osprey books are good but not many (anything written by Graham Sumner, for example, is worth getting). They are useless as an introduction because you need a good working knowledge of the subject before being able to know which ones are worth reading.

There is no vetting process at Osprey. You submit a proposal and if they think they can make money from it, they will green-light it. There is no requirement to be accurate. There is no peer review process. They don't even have any footnotes.

IMO one of the best introductions to this subject is Connolly's Greece and Rome at War.

Just came across a reference to a band of gladiators supporting the short-lived emperor Nepotianus' takeover at Rome in 350. But no reference as to their equipment.

No opinion or much knowledge on this, just want to remind you I enjoy it when discussions get historical here.

For what it's worth, the general discussion of Gladiators transposed to a war/army situation should take into account that this guy, the Scissor, would be the absolute least likely one.  An axe, or a hammer, or a gladius sword is something you can momentarily put down, but this guy (whether we take his weapon to be a tube as IRL, or a prosthetic as HY apparently have it) is pretty permanently stuck being Edmundus Scissorhands.  Once his other hand is holding a shield, he's pretty limited in what he can do. Which is fine for a half hour fight in the arena, but a pretty awkward set up for a soldier's entire day.

Well they would be used as shock troops on the flanks not for long fighting also not so organized just all out charge so the scissores could use that and a gladius no shield for offensive close to dimacheri style.

kelo1 wrote:Well they would be used as shock troops on the flanks not for long fighting also not so organized just all out charge so the scissores could use that and a gladius no shield for offensive close to dimacheri style.

Wait, would they? How do we know? The Romans did not employ bersekers, and orderly formation and proper armor and equipment were pretty much their go to modus operendi. There were archers and slingers for other stuff.