Painting seamless bodies (NSFW?)

Aria wrote:GubernatorFan, translucent powder is also known as setting powder in the makeup works, and some companies, like Laura Mercier, make translucent setting powder specifically for darker tones.  Some of that might help keep your Finn body from getting dulled down with light setting powder.

Thank you, Aria, I will keep that in mind in future. Just in case you happen to know, any tips for a powder with the appropriate properties (i.e., good for silicone and keeping it non-tacky) that does not show up too obviously in flash photos?

GubernatorFan wrote:

Aria wrote:GubernatorFan, translucent powder is also known as setting powder in the makeup works, and some companies, like Laura Mercier, make translucent setting powder specifically for darker tones.  Some of that might help keep your Finn body from getting dulled down with light setting powder.

Thank you, Aria, I will keep that in mind in future. Just in case you happen to know, any tips for a powder with the appropriate properties (i.e., good for silicone and keeping it non-tacky) that does not show up too obviously in flash photos?

The white, translucent powders show up the most, and so does too much of it. Use a flesh-toned powder, which can be anything from peachy to darker, anything but the powder-white stuff, press it onto the figure, and dust off any that's left over before photos. Use a diffuser over the flash. A diffuser itself won't entirely eliminate the issue, but will help, especially in combination with using a powder other than the super white stuff.

Try to avoid powders with titanium dioxide and zinc oxide, which is in SPF formulas. Those are meant to deflect UV rays, but will also reflect flash. Avoid silica as well, which is mostly found in HD powders. CoverFX Perfect Setting Powder is a good bet. Not cheap, but we all know this hobby isn't cheap.

I find reborn dolls incredibly creepy and shudder-inducing, but I came upon this tutorial on how to paint them today and immediately thought of this thread! I’m assuming most seamless bodies are made of silicone so perhaps the paints referred to here would work?

(Tw for creepy babies/body horror at the start)

https://donnaleeoriginals.com/siliconetutorial.html

Oh my god, I feel the same way, Lynkhart!!! I can barely stand to look at them....shudder!! O.O

That being said, I really appreciate you sharing this info here! Hopefully something good can come out of those terrors, lmao.

That paint mix could be a possibility— but, yeah. EWWW! Those babies seem like some creepy “can’t let go” sort of thing.

Aria wrote:The white, translucent powders show up the most, and so does too much of it.  Use a flesh-toned powder, which can be anything from peachy to darker, anything but the powder-white stuff, press it onto the figure, and dust off any that's left over before photos.  Use a diffuser over the flash.  A diffuser itself won't entirely eliminate the issue, but will help, especially in combination with using a powder other than the super white stuff. Try to avoid powders with titanium dioxide and zinc oxide, which is in SPF formulas.  Those are meant to deflect UV rays, but will also reflect flash.  Avoid silica as well, which is mostly found in HD powders.  CoverFX Perfect Setting Powder is a good bet.  Not cheap, but we all know this hobby isn't cheap.

Thank you for the advice, will keep it in mind.

Lynkhart wrote:I find reborn dolls incredibly creepy and shudder-inducing, but I came upon this tutorial on how to paint them today and immediately thought of this thread! I’m assuming most seamless bodies are made of silicone so perhaps the paints referred to here would work?

I agree, they are incredibly creepy, but thank you for providing the link. It is definitely an interesting tutorial or description, and it seems to lead to impressive results. That said, it seems to be more applicable to bigger (even 1:1) dolls, and subtler and semi-translucent coloring which might not be enough for the usual type of 1:6 customs. At any rate, working with special silicone coloring systems has always been an ideal solution, but also quite complicated and perhaps impractical for most of our limited purposes.

I may have found an option for painting seamless figures. There’s a company out there called Smooth-On that makes silicone mold-making products and pigments. I called them this morning and they think they have an option that could work. The pigment itself is super concentrated (called Silc-Pig), much like when you go to the hardware store to get paint, it doesn’t take much to get the color you want; then you add it to Sil-poxy Rubber Adhesive (this stuff is super thick), so it has to be diluted with Smooth-On NOVOCS Matte silicone solvent (this can be thinned down to any consistency, including the ability to use it with an air-brush). I ordered all three of these things off Amazon, and I’ll let you know what the results are. Altogether it cost about $112.00 for all this stuff.

Stryker2011 wrote:I may have found an option for painting seamless figures. There’s a company out there called Smooth-On that makes silicone mold-making products and pigments. I called them this morning and they think they have an option that could work. The pigment itself is super concentrated (called Silc-Pig), much like when you go to the hardware store to get paint, it doesn’t take much to get the color you want; then you add it to Sil-poxy Rubber Adhesive (this stuff is super thick), so it has to be diluted with Smooth-On NOVOCS Matte silicone solvent (this can be thinned down to any consistency, including the ability to use it with an air-brush). I ordered all three of these things off Amazon, and I’ll let you know what the results are. Altogether it cost about $112.00 for all this stuff.

I hope it works, but my experience has not been encouraging. I have experimented with Silc-Pig for years, mixing it with silicone glue (admittedly, not the same one you mention), and have on occasion attempted to thin it down (again not the same solvent). It worked poorly when I tried (though not air-brushing). The results were uneven; the best was when painting a small and concentrated area (like a nipple) -- the pigmented silicone stuck reasonably strongly, although if you really wanted to you could peel it off. Do remember to remove as much of the protective powder as you can before you start (it's easy to forget). The combination between the specific products you list above and air-brushing might lead to a better result, so let us know how it worked out. I personally gave up on that after Ephiane's breakthrough with the oil pastels.

Question about prepping the seamless body for the oil pastel method -- once the figure is washed, how long should I let it dry?

I thought it was better to let it air-dry, or else I might get 'fluff' from the paper towel on it. But it's somewhat difficult to tell if it's dry or not yet, given that it's now extremely sticky to the touch.

If it’s extremely sticky, you should be good to go.

My first attempt with the silc-pig was a failure. Going to make another attempt with a different bonding agent — I’ll let you know.

Ah ok, thanks!

And oh no.... wishing you luck on the next try!

Good question, to which I simply don't remember the answer. I washed with lukewarm water, and then dabbed it thoroughly with paper towels (the thick quilted kind that don't fall apart easily) to where I could see no obvious signs of wetness (and there was no fluff). Then it's oil pastel time.

Mark, I am sorry to hear the experiment didn't work -- although more serious and advanced than them, it does seem to confirm my own attempts. Remember mixing silk pig with actual silicone glue is still an option, at least for small stuff. And it being "reversible" (really, "peelable") might actually be a good thing.

Ok....immediately i have run into a problem: the makeup sponge keeps 'sticking' to the seamless body. It's blending the colour into it just fine, but leaving residue from the sponge onto the body in the process. I'm not even sure how to fix that, or if I've totally wrecked it now! :/

What kind of makeup sponge are you supposed to blend it with???

skywalkersaga wrote:Ok....immediately i have run into a problem: the makeup sponge keeps 'sticking' to the seamless body. It's blending the colour into it just fine, but leaving residue from the sponge onto the body in the process. I'm not even sure how to fix that, or if I've totally wrecked it now! :/

What kind of makeup sponge are you supposed to blend it with???

Don't panic. I don't know if there is a specific type to use, or a specific type not to use (though you seem to have discovered that -- I am assuming you mean parts of the actual sponge are becoming loose and sticking to the body). Try using one of those small travel-sized lint rollers to pick up stuff that shouldn't be on the body (though now that the body is sticky, it would be harder to pick it up). Or go carefully by hand or tweezers -- patience is something we need with this hobby from time to time. If you are not doing so already, try using a specially designated blending sponge (I noticed some of mine had that description on the packaging).

By the way, if your colors are blending, you're already ahead of the curve.

GubernatorFan wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:Ok....immediately i have run into a problem: the makeup sponge keeps 'sticking' to the seamless body. It's blending the colour into it just fine, but leaving residue from the sponge onto the body in the process. I'm not even sure how to fix that, or if I've totally wrecked it now! :/

What kind of makeup sponge are you supposed to blend it with???

Don't panic. I don't know if there is a specific type to use, or a specific type not to use (though you seem to have discovered that -- I am assuming you mean parts of the actual sponge are becoming loose and sticking to the body). Try using one of those small travel-sized lint rollers to pick up stuff that shouldn't be on the body (though now that the body is sticky, it would be harder to pick it up). Or go carefully by hand or tweezers -- patience is something we need with this hobby from time to time. If you are not doing so already, try using a specially designated blending sponge (I noticed some of mine had that description on the packaging).

By the way, if your colors are blending, you're already ahead of the curve.

Thanks for the calming advice, GF.  :'D

I'm still not really sure what happened there -- I had decided to experiment on parts of the body that wouldn't be showing by trying different colours and also making layers, but then it just started looking weird and almost 'scaly'. O.o  It could have been coming off the sponge, or might have been partially some residue from the pastels themselves that was sort of 'caking' on the surface of the body.... it was like, it blended a little, but then started building up a bit perhaps. But i was also worried that maybe the sponge I was using might have been scraping the silicone itself and that the residue on it was from that.

Weirdly, the parts that I *hadn't* blended with the sponge and had just applied one single layer of colour directly looked better and smoother. But I can't achieve the colour I want without several layers, so.... :/

I've taken a little break from applying the pastels and decided to try to wash the body to see what happened, just in some some soap and water. It does seem to have removed the residue and some of the 'caking' bits, leaving the underlying colour.  I was panicking also that maybe I hadn't washed it thoroughly enough to begin with, and that perhaps the residue was actually the pastels sticking to the tbleague powder. So i thought giving it a wash might help... at least that way, the parts I hadn't 'painted' yet might still be useable.

Once it dries again, I'll try to muster the courage to keep working on it... :3

skywalkersaga wrote:Thanks for the calming advice, GF.  :'D

I'm still not really sure what happened there -- I had decided to experiment on parts of the body that wouldn't be showing by trying different colours and also making layers, but then it just started looking weird and almost 'scaly'. O.o  It could have been coming off the sponge, or might have been partially some residue from the pastels themselves that was sort of 'caking' on the surface of the body.... it was like, it blended a little, but then started building up a bit perhaps. But i was also worried that maybe the sponge I was using might have been scraping the silicone itself and that the residue on it was from that.

Weirdly, the parts that I *hadn't* blended with the sponge and had just applied one single layer of colour directly looked better and smoother. But I can't achieve the colour I want without several layers, so.... :/

I've taken a little break from applying the pastels and decided to try to wash the body to see what happened, just in some some soap and water. It does seem to have removed the residue and some of the 'caking' bits, leaving the underlying colour.  I was panicking also that maybe I hadn't washed it thoroughly enough to begin with, and that perhaps the residue was actually the pastels sticking to the tbleague powder. So i thought giving it a wash might help... at least that way, the parts I hadn't 'painted' yet might still be useable.

Once it dries again, I'll try to muster the courage to keep working on it... :3

Welcome. I was off running an errand, and thought to myself I should suggest to you simply to wash the body again, but am glad you tried that anyway, with success. You really can pat/dab it dry, unless you have some particularly unhardy paper towels that will leave remnants stuck on it. Isn't it neat how the color sticks to the body, even if some of the water from washing it seems to run with a bit of dye?

Anyway, caking is normal when working with pastels of any sort on any sort of surface. You are probably not scraping the silicone "skin" or at least not enough to damage it. The use of the makeup sponge is specifically to rub the color more into the surface and to remove excess oil pastel, so your second description seems to indicate this was in fact normal. Keep going over it with the sponge until no oil pastel rubs off from the surface onto cloth or paper towel that you use to test it. Washing it with water is fine, but be careful with soap -- if you go back to earlier posts from Ephiane, you will see it is used to make the skin shinier, and that may or may not be what you want -- of course this might be a different process so it might not apply.

GubernatorFan wrote:

Welcome. I was off running an errand, and thought to myself I should suggest to you simply to wash the body again, but am glad you tried that anyway, with success. You really can pat/dab it dry, unless you have some particularly unhardy paper towels that will leave remnants stuck on it. Isn't it neat how the color sticks to the body, even if some of the water from washing it seems to run with a bit of dye?

Anyway, caking is normal when working with pastels of any sort on any sort of surface. You are probably not scraping the silicone "skin" or at least not enough to damage it. The use of the makeup sponge is specifically to rub the color more into the surface and to remove excess oil pastel, so your second description seems to indicate this was in fact normal. Keep going over it with the sponge until no oil pastel rubs off from the surface onto cloth or paper towel that you use to test it. Washing it with water is fine, but be careful with soap -- if you go back to earlier posts from Ephiane, you will see it is used to make the skin shinier, and that may or may not be what you want -- of course this might be a different process so it might not apply.

Oh, phew, I'm glad most of what I was experiencing is 'normal'. And yes, it was really neat to see how well the colour had taken to the silicone!

I just tried dabbing with the paper towel and it seems to be fine...I think I was just being overly paranoid. ;p

And thanks for the reminder about the soap making it shiny.... I decided to use the soap cause the only parts I had coloured were those that weren't going to show, so I was actually kind of curious to see the effect. I used type of handsoap that had tea tree oil in it, and this seemed to work ok. But even if it had turned extremely shiny, I was still interested to see what that looked like vs. the more matte appearance. As is probably obvious, I'm attempting to do some SW aliens, and so I've perhaps got a little more wiggle room with skin surface texture. Though, I do personally prefer a 'matte' finish for most things, but thought it was worth risking some soap to get the residue off, either way.

I went back over the earlier posts, and the shiny skin trick apparently includes specifically rubbing the body with some soap and water on the sponge (and then presumably letting it set in/dry). Normal use of soap is certainly ok when you first prepare the body for painting (to remove the protective powder) and that apparently has no effect on shininess. What happens if you wash the painted body with soap and water, I don't know or recall if I did that with mine (or if I just used water). Mine haven't turned shiny. And remember to reapply protective powder when you are all done, although there is a theory that the oil pastel itself protects the silicone surface a bit.

I did use soap to wash the painted layers I'd done on the legs, and it has not made them shiny. At least, not noticeably so. But I only just sort of poured a bit of soap onto the body and then rinsed it off straight away, just to help get all the excess pastel bits off. So maybe it's ok?

Probably fine.

Another semi-related question: you've mentioned using a type of silicone glue before in regards to painting the bodies.... I'm just wondering, what kind of glue works on these? Not necessarily for painting purposes, but in general. Especially for modding. Does superglue stick to the surface, or is a special glue required?

skywalkersaga wrote:Another semi-related question: you've mentioned using a type of silicone glue before in regards to painting the bodies.... I'm just wondering, what kind of glue works on these? Not necessarily for painting purposes, but in general. Especially for modding. Does superglue stick to the surface, or is a special glue required?

No, you need something like THIS (at least I think that's the one I use). It is handy and reasonably good (remember to remove any protective powder on the surfaces you want to bond), creating a decent bond, but also ultimately removable if you try to peel it off the surface with sufficient determination. To be clear, I have never used it to glue different silicone surfaces together, just as a way of affixing a mixed-in color (theoretically acrylic should work mixed into the glue, but silc pig is much better).

GubernatorFan wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:Another semi-related question: you've mentioned using a type of silicone glue before in regards to painting the bodies.... I'm just wondering, what kind of glue works on these? Not necessarily for painting purposes, but in general. Especially for modding. Does superglue stick to the surface, or is a special glue required?

No, you need something like THIS (at least I think that's the one I use). It is handy and reasonably good (remember to remove any protective powder on the surfaces you want to bond), creating a decent bond, but also ultimately removable if you try to peel it off the surface with sufficient determination. To be clear, I have never used it to glue different silicone surfaces together, just as a way of affixing a mixed-in color (theoretically acrylic should work mixed into the glue, but silc pig is much better).

Ah, ok, glad I asked! I'll have to get some of that straight away!

ETA: not sure if that precise type is available in the UK...

Sorry for the slew of questions in a row, but back to the topic of 'painting'.... I realize now that it's probably best to work in many layers, and to 'wash' the figure in between, to remove the residue. I also experimented with light and darker colours and shades, and found that the darker shades don't seem to blend into lighter shades as well...or at least, the ones i was using did not. I'd love to be able to have multiple hues and shades, but just unsure if it's best to start with lighter shades and then add darker, or to use a somewhat darker colour as base and then add lighter colours on top?

The biggest challenge of this for me so far is achieving the 'right' colour or colours.... because obviously finding the perfect colour via one single pastel is not highly likely.

Well, my latest attempt with the Smooth-On products on the TBLeague body was another resounding failure. Apparently, whatever type of silicone TBL is using is not the same as what Smooth-On uses, and the paint doesn’t adhere properly. I don’t have an air-brush, so as you apply the paint, it begins to clump in sections as each new layer is added. Trying to use a pale body to make it White (like Lady Death), but you need to apply so many layers of the paint to get it to work, and as I said, the paint doesn’t go on smooth after each layer. That was a $145 experiment, and a complete failure.

skywalkersaga wrote:I realize now that it's probably best to work in many layers, and to 'wash' the figure in between, to remove the residue. I also experimented with light and darker colours and shades, and found that the darker shades don't seem to blend into lighter shades as well...or at least, the ones i was using did not. I'd love to be able to have multiple hues and shades, but just unsure if it's best to start with lighter shades and then add darker, or to use a somewhat darker colour as base and then add lighter colours on top?

These pastels are indeed limited in range of colors (although you can help yourself by getting one of those boxes with as many colors as possible -- say 24 or more), and they don't blend as easily or as thoroughly as if you were mixing waterpaints, acrylics, or tempera (by the way, make sure you don't use water-soluble pastels -- in theory they would be easier to blend but in practice they don't stick as securely and largely wash off). Painting multiple layers of color (the same and different ones) is a good idea, although I am not sure about washing in-between. That would reduce rather than enhance the degree the colors blend into each other. Of course we are speaking hypothetically, and I don't know exactly what color you are trying to get. But when I was trying to achieve a darker brown color for my second "African" body, I used some reds, blues, and greens as well as the limited range of brown(s) in multiple layers (not all of them necessarily evenly distributed across the body -- there are places where you might want to emphasize the musculature or "terrain" with a deeper color). So that you don't end up with something completely off, it helps keeping in mind what colors produce what when you mix them (even if they don't mix the same way with paints as with the pastels).

Stryker2011 wrote:Well, my latest attempt with the Smooth-On products on the TBLeague body was another resounding failure. Apparently, whatever type of silicone TBL is using is not the same as what Smooth-On uses, and the paint doesn’t adhere properly. I don’t have an air-brush, so as you apply the paint, it begins to clump in sections as each new layer is added. Trying to use a pale body to make it White (like Lady Death), but you need to apply so many layers of the paint to get it to work, and as I said, the paint doesn’t go on smooth after each layer. That was a $145 experiment, and a complete failure.

I am very sorry this didn't work out. I always thought that in theory that would have been the proper way to do it, but didn't want to go for a more complicated and possibly hazardous process. Perhaps your financial and chronological sacrifice in the name of science will be rewarded with good karma points as you have been kind enough to forewarn others and keep them from the same sort of disappointment.

GF -- Ah ok, I see what you mean...you are probably right that blending the colours prior to washing the residue off would be best. I'm not sure what I was thinking, really, lol. I guess it was more that I like to see 'how I'm doing' before continuing to blend or add colour, but in this case I probably just have to go for it and hope for the best. It's a rather counter-intuitive type of 'painting', and not at all like what I'm used to. Which I expected, but still, definitely a massive learning curve...

And Stryker -- I'm so sorry it didn't work out -- so gutting when something like that happens. I recently had some frustrating disappointments myself with a couple of planned projects, so I feel you.

I am just now getting into this stuff.

I picked up a Jiaou Doll body with "black" PS skin, which is much too pale. I am looking to color the body to match up with a head that I have on hand.

Has this oil pastel method worked on a TPE body?

Also, I have been looking into the possibility of dying the TPE outright. What I found are TPE specific pigments, meant to be used with mineral carrier oil.

https://www.polyone.com/products/thermoplastic-elastomers/tpe-knowledge-center/technical-bulletins/coloring-tpes

https://www.amazon.com/Mystic-Moments-White-Mineral-Carrier/dp/B006Y6ZA5E

http://www.vortexcolor.com/dispersion.html

Has anyone tried this?

maximvsv wrote:I picked up a Jiaou Doll body with "black" PS skin, which is much too pale. I am looking to color the body to match up with a head that I have on hand. Has this oil pastel method worked on a TPE body?

Also, I have been looking into the possibility of dying the TPE outright. What I found are TPE specific pigments, meant to be used with mineral carrier oil. Has anyone tried this?

Welcome again.

I have realized that while this thread started with some failed experiments on a Jiaou TPE-covered body, it shifted to the successful method of applying oil pastel onto TBLeague (Phicen) silicone-covered bodies and never looked back. I had been meaning to try again on a Jiaou TPE, but hadn't until you asked. So I found a floppy-footed one in the pretty pale "natural" color and did a quick (and imperfect) test with the Staedtler Van Dyke brown oil pastel. It seems to take the oil pastel even more readily than the Phicen silicone, and produces comparable results. First I rinsed the body with water (to remove the protective powder), then I dried it, then I applied the oil pastel (again, for a quick test, I didn't go at it long enough to get a perfect consistency of coloring), then I smoothed (don't want to say "massaged") it on for a while with a make up sponge, then rinsed again (even used some soap on parts of it, to see if it makes a difference), and dried it again. No oil pastel coloring seems to have come off the body, and even fairly aggressive dabbing and scraping with white paper towel does not seem to produce any noticeable color transfer (and a more thorough job with the make up sponge would surely improve even more on this good result); also, more careful, consistent, and repeated application of the oil pastel would yield a much better appearance. Haven't done so yet, but I should apply protective powder next.

So the answer is (now) -- oil pastel works on Jiaou TPE-covered bodies same as on TBLeague silicone-covered bodies. At least based on the quick test I just did. Here is the preliminary result:



As for dyeing the TPE with TPE-secific pigments mixed with mineral carrier oil, I would not know what to tell you. In principle it would probably work, but it sounds like a possibly more complicated or expensive process to me, that I personally do not see the need to try unless the simpler solution with oil pastels fails to yield satisfactory results. The issue is that not all TPE is the same (probably), the protective powder may cause complications (depending on how thoroughly you are able to remove it or not), and I wouldn't know about the availability, pricing, or any potential hazards involved in using these pigments (I know products designed specifically for use on silicone can have harmful effects so you need to take at least basic precautions -- ventilation, gloves, etc -- and there is still no guarantee for excellent or lasting results). Some have experimented with dyeing TBLeague (Phicen) bodies with fabric dye, but apparently it is a lengthy, messy, and stinky process, producing variable results.

I hope this helps.