Dyeing Phicen figures with Rit Dye (NSFW)

AAAaaaaaaaaaah thanks a lot for sharing that technique, I had seen it once on instagram, that's how Jacob Rahmier actually dyes phicen bodies to replace the hot toys Hell Boy on his custom figures, but he didn't share any tutorial that I know about and didn't answer any question about the dying temperature or the rit dye reference...

Awesome input!

blackpool wrote:AAAaaaaaaaaaah thanks a lot for sharing that technique, I had seen it once on instagram, that's how Jacob Rahmier actually dyes phicen bodies to replace the hot toys Hell Boy on his custom figures, but he didn't share any tutorial that I know about and didn't answer any question about the dying temperature or the rit dye reference...

Awesome input!

You can sell more customs for more $$$ if you don’t reveal simple secrets.

Stryker2011 wrote:

blackpool wrote:AAAaaaaaaaaaah thanks a lot for sharing that technique, I had seen it once on instagram, that's how Jacob Rahmier actually dyes phicen bodies to replace the hot toys Hell Boy on his custom figures, but he didn't share any tutorial that I know about and didn't answer any question about the dying temperature or the rit dye reference...

Awesome input!

You can sell more customs for more $$$ if you don’t reveal simple secrets.

This is so true. And this is why I love this forum. There are people out there trying to pull the wool [literally] over your eyes and charge you hundreds of $$$ for rooting a headsculpt with lamb hair, for instance. While I am ok with charging a fee for that service as it is indeed time-consuming and takes skill to make it look nice, some of the customizers out there take advantage of people's relative ignorance and ask what are, imo, ridiculous amounts for it. 

In this instance, being able to effectively colour tbleague bodies is such a helpful option for many in the hobby, so I greatly appreciate the fact that people here want to learn DIY methods and are willing to share the results of their experiments.

Moved it here so it doesn’t get lost in the General Section.

Took some more pictures tonight. Again it's really hard for me to tell just how much the skin has lightened due to inconsistent lighting circumstances, but looking at these two pictures I think you can see some lightening of the skin. I don't think the dye is impermanent in the sense that it rubs off, but rather it seems to disperse somewhat throughout the rest of the silicone body. You can clearly see how much more evenly colored the body is in the second picture compared to the first.





On a bright note, now the body almost perfectly matches this Gal Gadot head I had that previously didn't look quite right on anything. Hopefully the body doesn't lighten much more. I've taken photographs of the body for the past three mornings and I can't really see that it's lightened much at all, but we'll see how things are at the end of the month.

I have a new s29 coming hopefully on Friday, and this time I'll photograph it immediately after dying and the next few days to see just how much, if at all, it lightens.

Well, they both look lighter in one of the photos, so some of this has to do with lighting. Either way, I still think it looks great.

She looks amazing!!! Thank you for tracking the results so wonderfully!

This is fascinating to watch. It now looks like the early Phicen Suntan bodies. Keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn’t lighten anymore — I wonder how many dips in the dye bath you need to do to get the dye to disperse enough to get a nice chocolate brown skin tone — like in your first pic.

Yeah, the dye 'fading' over a period of time is something that I was curious about simply because we know very well that sometimes tbleague bodies absorb stains after a while. So it's definitely something to bear in mind. Though I do wonder if dyeing it multiple times might make it go even darker. Or, perhaps if one starts with a suntan to begin with, which is what gooboo is planning to do with the next one, it might not fade *as* much.

Got my new s29 in the mail today. Decided to take a comparison picture of an unmodified s28, dyed s28, and new s29 together in natural sunlight. The body now looks more like a tanned body instead of a dark-skinned person. I think it's a more realistic looking tan than the "wheat" figures Phicen makes, which I always thought looked a little ashen or corpse-like to me.




It would seem that if you want to dye your body a really dark brown color, it's going to require more than one dyeing session. I'll probably dye the new s29 sometime tomorrow when I have natural sunlight to take pictures with. I'll take a photo right after dyeing, then photograph it each day to see how much it lightens.

Oh wow, it did lighten quite a bit! Seems like it definitely changed the skintone but the silicone has absorbed enough that it isn't as dark/saturated.

Thanks for continuing to do this.

Finished dyeing the new body today. Filled up the pot with water, put in 5 caps of dye, although I increased it to about 9 caps of dye halfway through because my arms were getting tired and I wanted to hurry things up a bit. I also put a teaspoon of dish detergent/soap into the mix, which was recommended on the Rit bottle. I'm not sure if this made any difference or not, but I though I would try it out on this one.

This body turned out better than the s28 initially did. There are still some splotches on the torso, but not as noticeable as they were on the s28. After watching the splotches and uneven coloring largely disappear on the previous body, I expect they'll do the same on this one.



I think the splotches roughly correspond with where the water droplets dye were located on the figure whenever I pulled it out of the pot to look at it. I wonder if I just kept the figure in the pot the entire time, removing it only sparingly instead of ever 30 seconds or so, if these splotches would never appear. Next time I try dyeing a figure I'll keep it in the pot most of the time and see how it looks at the end.

Here are some pictures with the body next to an unmodified s28 and s29. I thought this turned out to be a really pretty shade of brown, but if it's anything like that last figure I dyed I imagine I'm going to have to dye it again in a week or so.



And here it is powdered.



That's it for today.

Looks like another success, although I understand your apprehension about the color becoming lighter over time. I hope this one will stay put.

That is a great brown. It’ll be interesting to see how it looks in a week.

Looks really pretty , and I’m also curious to see how dyeing it multiple times turns out.

Hi everyone.

Gooboo, congratulations for your efforts. This is indeed a revolutionary historical milestone in 1/6: no less than colour fine-tuning on seamless bodies. Difficult to believe!

Regarding Rit Synthetic Dye (the very little Chemistry I know, is from my 2 last highschool years, centuries ago, so if there is any expert in the room, please bear w/ me): when I first heard of this stuff, I was dubious about the whole of it. Setting aside any environmental concerns about using yet another non-biodegradable substance in the hobby, I just couldn't wrap my mind around how the colour of what essentially is extremely fine coloured molded plastic (yeap, synthetic fibers are, in a way) could be easily changed... from the outside? With a dye? I still don't get it: how can you remove (because there is a Rit Synthetic Colour Remover too) and modify what is an inherent part of a piece of plastic? If that was even possible, why couldn't be done before? (this is supposed to be a new product, and common knowledge was for years, you can't dye synthetic fabric)

Anyways, it turns out this thing actually works, and synthetic fibers (i.e. plastic) is just like human hair: somehow the big molecules reponsible for colour (big-->they can interact with light) that are built into the fiber/hair strand can be separated from the stuff that actually makes up their physical structure, and be substituted by others. Period.

Yet, I try to understand the "how", which might explain the phenomena witnessed on this thread: whatever colour molecules that there are in the dye, I guess they break up into anions and cations when dissolved in water, and through some kind of chemical bond, they attach to the body's plastic molecules, which themselves are already bonded to other big colour molecules (the body's original colour). If many dye molecules concentrate in an area, they won't bond to plastic molecules, but to other dye molecules. This bond is weaker and with enough exposure to oxygen would allow dye evaporation (i.e. colour fading). Hence the disappearance of splotches after dyeing, and the fading of the overall dyied colour. The disappearance of dye stains on the body caused by clothing, after some time and w/o any intervention, could also be explained as weak dye-dye bonds from excess dye on the clothes that would migrate onto the silicone to form weak dye-plastic bonds created at room temperatures, as strong bonds would only form at high temperatures.

Why do splotches form?: maybe because of oversaturation of water w/ dye. Microblobs of dye might form and irregularly stain the body's surface. Fix: less dye in the mix (more iterations, more time, more patience), and more effort in dissolving the dye and keeping it solved throught an immersion.

More colour change w/ less dye?: maybe by covering the pot with a lid while keeping the body from touching the extremely hot metal bottom. Also, the less dye evaporates into the environment, the healthier (any evaporated dye might end up in your and your family's lungs).

Can endless dyeing iterations actually change the colour endlessly?: I have introduced the hypothesis of good, durable, plastic-dye bonds vs bad, vanishing, dye-dye bonds on spots oversaturated with dye. I am also hypothesizing that a piece of Phicen silicon might only accept and durably keep a certain amount of dye, of which a sizeable portion might already be there in the form of its original colour, especially if (as I suspect) dyeing only happens on the surface, or slightly beneath it. Any excess above this theoretical limit would sooner or later evaporate. With many dyeing iterations you would only make sure to have reached saturation, but beyond that, further colour change might not be possible as evaporation of weak bonds would eventually clean up any excess dye.

This colour modification method is, in spite of any eventual limitations, a game-changing discovery, and we should make TBLeague aware of it so that they consider the possibility of creating a line of colour-free bodies, ready to be dyied effectively, and an official, reliable, tried and true colour guide showing how to achieve any typical skin tone, durably and without imperfections.

Finally: this dyeing technique might be further refined so that figures with properly coloured nipples could also be possible.

Some final thoughts:

0) Pictures must be taken with the same reproducible lighting and capture conditions (same camera/settings, etc). Otherwise, comparison is impossible and conclusions can't be drawn.

1) I am fascinated by the fact ABS plastic does not change colour the same way as silicone. I guess those hands might be painted hands, and paint might be a completely different material from the
plastic underneath, hence the different results.

2) Does the dye make the body reflect light differently? Or is it the powder? Incidentally (sorry about my ignorance on this respect) why are you so quick to cover the body in powder? Do you use that powder also when you use the body, or only when in storage? I could not use a body in a custom while it is covered in powder.... :-(

SUCH A LONG POST!
I hope this contribution will somehow help to further develop this technique.

LMK guys.
Thanks,
m.

I agree about the reproducible lighting- I've done a terrible job at it so far. Next time I'm just going to take photographs in my bathroom where no sunlight or other exterior lighting can affect the setup.

As for the powdering, I was under the impression nearly everyone applied some powder to their figures. The silicone gets sticky and shiny when there's no powder on it, and the bodies come with a light powder on them when you open them from the box. The shininess isn't really realistic looking anyways, so people who photograph their figures I think usually apply some powder to them to make the skin more matte.

asgardianboy -- Welcome, and thanks for that very detailed breakdown of the process. It does explain why the dye is 'absorbed' -- or rather, as you explained, evaporates! I'm certainly curious to see the results of further experiments in this area. 

Re: tbleague providing 'blank' bodies -- now that's certainly an interesting idea. Though I'd also be perfectly happy if they would just come out with already-made bodies w/ more variety of skintones. ;D Both options would certainly be welcome, though!

gooboo -- Using your bathroom lighting as a 'constant' is a good idea! : ) 

And re: the powders: yes, I've been under the same impression. Generally, I don't need to 're-powder' my tbleague bodies that much, since I don't handle them a ton, other than when I'm working on making a custom figure. Once I'm done, if the powder has rubbed off , or been washed off as in the process of the oil pastel method, I apply a translucent makeup powder with a makeup and/or cake-decorating brush. Some people use cornstarch, but I never tried that -- just jumped straight into the makeup powder. But in my case I don't need to apply it all that often, especially since a lot of my tbleague bodies end up being permanently clothed.

I attempted dyeing the s12 and s28 from the first try, since they had lightened so much from the time I first dyed them. This time I'm photographing the bodies in a room closed off from the sunlight, so I should be able to have consistent lighting this time around.

On this attempt I wanted to see what would happen if I left the body in the pot for longer periods of time, rather than lifting it out every 30-45 seconds, and then dipping it back in. For the s28 I had it in the pot for about 35-40 minutes and lifted it out every 10 minutes or so to see what color it was. I hung the bodies in the pot from a cabinet so I wouldn't have to hold them myself.



Here is the result for the s28-



I think the splotchiness on the legs was caused by little bubbles that formed on the body from the near-boiling water. When I would life it out of the pot to see what color it was I only lifted it out partway, so I think the bubbles on the top part of the torso would disappear after lifting it out but the ones on the lower body remained, which might be why the top half of the body is colored much smoother than the bottom half.

Here is the s12-



I didn't keep track of how long I had this one in the pot, but it wasn't as long as the s28. It has some splotches on it as well, though not in the same locations as the first time I dyed it.

Anyways, I'm all out of dye now so I'll have to go buy some more before I make anymore attempts. You can definitely re-dye the bodies after you've dyed them once, although I don't know how many more times I'll have to do this to get a body to stay a nice dark brown color.

A clever contraption you rigged up there! ;D  

Hope that the second dyeing will help. It's so hard to know what will or will not 'stick' with these silicone bodies, so I can understand the uncertainty and frustration. Thanks for keeping us updated, and I look forward to seeing how it goes. Regardless of the permanence of the results, I appreciate you sharing this experiment with us.

Once again, I’m in awe how good that looks. Let’s hope this time it sticks around longer (or has more of a permanency level after it seeps into the silicone enough not to fade too much).

The contraption is slightly comedic, but seems to be working well. Keep it up. And let us know if these hold up.

Could double as a 1/6 torture device... or some kind of creepy body-horror scene.

I'll be very interesting to see whether the duration of the bath makes a difference.
I'd have been too scared to leave her in for that long, so... thank you for taking the risk and sharing! ^^

Just a note on the hands, from my limited experience dyeing resin ball jointed dolls, (and also once I dyed a knockoff 1:6 adrien brody head dark brown for giggles)

if you sand or cut the surface of the hands they will take dye more closely in colour to what you expect from the bottle. I’m not sure why as the chemical process should be the same, but with the head I dyed, the areas where I cut off the hair to make a bald head (don’t ask) took the dye beautifully, where the face went a sort of greyish brown and then as I poured more dye in eventually went greyish black and I ruined the whole thing. I had cleaned the paint from the face with a solvent so it wasn’t residual varnish or sealer or whatever they put on these things, just something about sanding made it pick up the dye better. Just that hands and faces are very fine so there’s not much you can sand off them! could be useful info to you anyway.

GooBoo, you are my hero! This is my first post on OSF so thank you for bringing out from lurking. I tried your formula with great success on my TBLeague bodies. I am so grateful to you for revealing this to us.

Can I post pictures in your thread or do you prefer I start a new one?

Sure, you can post pictures here.

Thank you, GooBoo. I followed your instructions to the letter with a few modifications: To get a more realistic skin tone I mixed two Rit Synthetic dyes together.



I fully submerged the body for 20-30 minutes dipping the body every ten minutes:



First batch, I do not remember the Pale TBLeague body designation:




Second batch was on a TBLeague Keir body which has a blueish tint to it and bloody calves and forearms (covered in the photos):


Both together:


Second batch after I added more red dye:






This is a game changer for me. My welcome back to the hobby.