TBleague vs Non TPE Bodies

I had swapped one of my female figures into a TBleague body and while the body looks great I'm afraid to experiment with poses and accidentally tear the TPE. The extra articulation is really nice but not perfect. I can't get the arms to relax since the joints are maybe too weak or there is too much material in the way, something I didn't have to worry about with hard plastics joints. The feeling of posing the figure also feels unnerving due to not being able to get a firm grip on the steel skeleton underneath very squishy skin. While the sticky TPE skin doesn't really bother me it was a little hard to dress the body, which would probably stop me from changing it in the future to avoid the hassle. I'm torn, I really wanted to like TBleague but I'm just left feeling disappointed. I'm thinking about swapping the body out for a Very Cool 3.0 female body, but I'm holding off on ordering one until my Battle Angel Anna arrives which I will be able to test out since it has the same body that I just mentioned.

I think TBleauge has its uses and is a great product, but it just doesn't match what I want out of my figure. I need something that is easy to move and easy to pose. I don't necessarily mind joints as long as they don't stand out much. I'd like to pose and forget without the worry of damage.

Anybody have similar experiences?

I think you make some valid points.  I don’t maintain a display, and if I did, I’d need a copy of Dynamic Posing for Dummies.  To say I’m a vanilla poser would be an insult to vanilla.  So I don’t have to worry about a lot of the issues that most other collectors do with TBL bodies.  If I did maintain a display, I would probably go with hard plastic or hybrid bodies whenever possible.

I think these are valid concerns, and you are entitled to feel this way, given your experience and your priorities. While I have no stock in TBLeague, I also think it sounds like you have not given these figures a chance to learn and get comfortable with the range of opportunities they present. I'm sure if you are new to them they are probably very surprising (I was new to them so long ago, I don't really remember how I felt). There are many resources on this forum devoted to various aspects of these figures, that can probably assist you with some of these concerns (the TBLeague seamless bodies catalog contains a lot of information and links to other relevant topics and posts), including maintenance, dealing with tackiness, posing/articulation, troubleshooting, clothing, etc. (For example, get yourself some starch or silicon finishing powder, and plastic wrap.) Not everything will work, and not every body has the same capabilities, but overall they seem to me well worth the effort. Given a look that does not expose elbows and knees or more, in such instances, I would probably use regular hard-plastic, visibly-jointed bodies, too; others, appreciating the usually greater poseability and more natural look of the seamless bodies even when covered with (admittedly, fitting) clothing, would change every figure to a TBLeague body if they could. And I think that says something.

GubernatorFan wrote:I think these are valid concerns, and you are entitled to feel this way, given your experience and your priorities. While I have no stock in TBLeague, I also think it sounds like you have not given these figures a chance to learn and get comfortable with the range of opportunities they present. I'm sure if you are new to them they are probably very surprising (I was new to them so long ago, I don't really remember how I felt). There are many resources on this forum devoted to various aspects of these figures, that can probably assist you with some of these concerns (the TBLeague seamless bodies catalog contains a lot of information and links to other relevant topics and posts), including maintenance, dealing with tackiness, posing/articulation, troubleshooting, clothing, etc. (For example, get yourself some starch or silicon finishing powder, and plastic wrap.) Not everything will work, and not every body has the same capabilities, but overall they seem to me well worth the effort. Given a look that does not expose elbows and knees or more, in such instances, I would probably use regular hard-plastic, visibly-jointed bodies, too; others, appreciating the usually greater poseability and more natural look of the seamless bodies even when covered with (admittedly, fitting) clothing, would change every figure to a TBLeague body if they could. And I think that says something.

There's a slight possibility I might try another TBleague in the future since the arm tightness issue seemed to be an issue that solely affected the s28-29 and some of the bigger body types. I'm gonna wait till I get Anna (The VeryCool 3.0) and compare how they both feel in my hands before writing off TBleague. In many respects, I still think TBleague is superior but can't shake my initial impression of the product.

Suchsneak wrote:There's a slight possibility I might try another TBleague in the future since the arm tightness issue seemed to be an issue that solely affected the s28-29 and some of the bigger body types. I'm gonna wait till I get Anna (The VeryCool 3.0) and compare how they both feel in my hands before writing off TBleague. In many respects, I still think TBleague is superior but can't shake my initial impression of the product.

So did you get an S28A or S29B? While I have had no real issues with these products, some have complained (if I recall) of backwards installed arms and the like. Also, being "buxom" bodies (though not as much as the S38A and S39A), they would be a little more difficult to clothe. Some of the new bodies, especially the more petite ones, seem to have less articulation in the biceps (rotation around the arm's own axis). I still consider the S25B and S29B two of my favorite TBLeague releases.

Being new to the TBL bodies, I can understand your reticence to really experiment with it. Like the Guv, my experience with them goes back a long way to when the skeleton was junk plastic, had terrible articulation (and a ratchet system), and would easily break in odd places. Once the steel skeleton was introduced, I remember being pleasantly surprised how nice it was (except for the wrist pegs popping out). One of the things that I find that will save you tons of time and frustration, but can get very expensive, is once you put an outfit on — leave it. The aggravation of clothing these things is too great to be changing the outfits over and over. If I plan to use one of these things for a figure with different outfits, I buy extras of the same body, I don’t ever take those clothes off again (unless I decide that I no longer find the outfit interesting). Fully clothed figures without exposed joints I don’t usually waste the time or money to use a TBL when a jointed body will do.

For what it's worth, suchsneak, I had similar struggles when I first started using these bodies, and even now I find them a bit sressful to pose for many of the same reasons you do. My biggest annoyance is that when I pose them, I find it incredibly difficult to ever put them back into a neutral pose again. It's like they are always permanently a little 'off' in alignment, especially if I've moved the 'spine' or hips at all.  

I don't worry too much about tearing the TPE skin though, usually the skin is fine unless you leave the figure in the same pose for too long (overnight is probably ok, but any longer and it should be moved back into a neutral pose). 

And as for clothing these bodies, there are ways to get clothing onto them easier, via using plastic wrap or plastic bags to slide things onto them. Even so, once I get the figure dressed, I almost never take the outfit off again. I use a different tbleague body for every outfit. As expensive as that gets, that's the best way for me, as I hate dressing and undressing these. Some people might not mind changing the clothing on their tbleague bodies, but I prefer not to. 

I think if you want to treat a figure like a 'clothes horse' or a fashion doll (changing its outfits often), then it would indeed be easier to use a plastic body instead. When I want to 'change' outfits on a tbleague, I find it is better to just have multiples of the same bodies already dressed in different clothing, and then just swap the head between the clothed bodies, rather than try to dress and undress them.  Some people have no problem constantly changing clothing on them though, I think GubernatorFan does that frequently (correct me if I'm wrong). So it's up to your own preference. 

There are positives and negatives to both the TPE and non-TPE bodies. If you have a fully-clothed figure with lots of layers or armour and no skin showing, a non-TPE body is far cheaper and may be all you need. The benefit of the TPE bodies for me is the skeel skeleton, which offers the sturdiest posing abilities -- it holds poses and stands upright on its own very well. Imo, one of the reasons it is so popular with *action figure* customisers (along with the realism of the 'skin'), is that the steel skeletons are so much more reliable when it comes to actually holding poses for photoshoots. When I go to pose the regular plastic bodies now, I notice how unsteady on their feet and joints they feel. Even the bodies of the expensive Hot Toys figures are a huge pain the arse to pose, as they are constantly falling over, and the knees and elbow joints get loose after just one posing session. So, for me, both have their pros and cons.

Stryker2011 wrote:One of the things that I find that will save you tons of time and frustration, but can get very expensive, is once you put an outfit on — leave it. The aggravation of clothing these things is too great to be changing the outfits over and over. If I plan to use one of these things for a figure with different outfits, I buy extras of the same body, I don’t ever take those clothes off again (unless I decide that I no longer find the outfit interesting). Fully clothed figures without exposed joints I don’t usually waste the time or money to use a TBL when a jointed body will do.

This is some of the best advice you can give to someone relatively new to this hobby, and it’s something that I’ve learned the hard way. I’d also add that the more times you put an outfit on a body, the greater the odds are of ruining the outfit. My issues with that stem more from being both a perfectionist and a dumb ass when it comes to putting clothing on (not a good combination!), but same principle.

I mostly have TBLeague bodies. The few times I tried something else I was disappointed, because I found them harder to pose, harder to make them keep their pose, harder to balance and I found myself scared of breaking joints! So it was very interesting to read that you had that worry about TBLeague.

I don't pose my figures often. But when I do, while not being careless of course, I do feel very safe and am not worried at all. To me they are a dream to pose. Though I wouldn't leave them in a crunched position for long long because I know that can cause the skin to crack.

For comparison: I have multiple HT figures, Toys Era's Comedian, BBK's Halloween Killer, and I pulled out the arm and hand of the VeryCool 1/12 Catch Me figure multiple times, which goes to show just how safe I feel with TBL bodies.

PS: Remember to use cling film to cover the skin. That will make dressing them, especially in tight clothes, much MUCH easier.

skywalkersaga wrote:I think if you want to treat a figure like a 'clothes horse' or a fashion doll (changing its outfits often), then it would indeed be easier to use a plastic body instead. When I want to 'change' outfits on a tbleague, I find it is better to just have multiples of the same bodies already dressed in different clothing, and then just swap the head between the clothed bodies, rather than try to dress and undress them.  Some people have no problem constantly changing clothing on them though, I think GubernatorFan does that frequently (correct me if I'm wrong). So it's up to your own preference. 

I agree. Although I have multiple bodies from the types I like best, I guess I have commitment issues when it comes to giving them permanent clothing, except when kitbashing a character that I really intend to keep that way (like a Conan the Barbarian). That said, changing the clothes again and again can get pretty old, so if there isn't much danger of staining, and if I have other bodies to "play" with, I might leave a body in the clothing it was wearing for a long while (that is why you see clothing repeat in some of my images) -- until I need to change it. Of course if one comes up with new characters or makes informational threads on clothing, one needs to change some of it eventually...

I agree with Diana... I mostly have Phicen/TBL bodies. I also dress and undress them all the time. I use them as photographic models, and as I have a limited number of bodies, and a lot more heads, I swap and change the heads to match the character... I have about 20 TBL bodies, and around 50 head sculpts. I also have three drawers full of clothing. So, for me, most of the time, the bodies are kept naked. Weird, perhaps not, when you know you need to dress them in something different for a different character or photo shoot.

Talc is my friend to overcome stickiness. I put some on my hand and rub it over the body, then with a makeup brush, brush off the excess. For putting on clothing, pretty much any clothing, I will wrap the arms and legs in cling film (food wrap), and then put the clothing on, and then slide the cling film off. If the outfit has a risk of staining, then the whole body that will touch the clothing will be covered in cling film. Normally, though, I will try to treat the clothing to better ensure it doesn't stain - can't always be guaranteed though...

I love the way you can pose Phicens, and they will hold the position. Getting them to stand is a million times easier than trying to get a very light weight jointed doll to stand. Personally, I hate the look of joints. Most of the pictures I take I'd edit out the few joints Phicens have. But a jointed doll, I just don't use as I have no time for them. I know that's probably controversial, but it is how I feel, so can't be helped... Although there are a small number of jointed dolls I do have because I just loved the outfit and head sculpt that came with them. Have I moved them to Phicens? No, not yet. Keep thinking about it, but some of those outfits, I am not even sure I could get off of the jointed dolls.

I hope you keep at it with Phicens. Unless you want to keep them on display they should be a problem. For long term displaying, I'd recommend a jointed body.

Hope that helps somewhat.