Now Censored: TBLeague / Phicen and other seamless bodies

This series of posts was split off from a different topic and addresses the recent censoring of the anatomically correct detail in TBLeague / Phicen and apparently other seamless bodies.

The new bodies (I got S24B, S25C, S28B, and S29C) seem to be good quality and correspond to the original releases, with modified coloring -- for the most part. When preparing the photos for the catalog thread I discovered that TBLeague had a surfeit of prudishness and decided to make them non-anatomically correct. I know some would be very disappointed by that, and in principle I can't blame them. Then there is the protective powder issue, which some careful brushing should mitigate.

Got mine in the mail today, and can confirm that these figures are not anatomically accurate, even if the original models were. Read this post on BBICN that could give some reason as to Phicen's shift-

"The media previously exposed the sale of pirated adult pvc figures in some shops outside schools and then the government sent law enforcement officers to inspect all local toy factories in Dongguan. Chinese law doesn't allow the sale of pornographic products but allow the adult products. Now the problem is those adult figures/models that cannot be used to facilitate sexual pleasure are not clearly classified as adult products. So now they temporarily remove the 'private details' to avoid legal risks maybe. On the cootrary, the factories that produces adult pvc figures did not change the mold and their selling agents just temporarily no longer providing orders for pre-orders of audlt pvc figures in China. Anyway, it just a temporary solution during the special period I guess. Of course, you can send an email to consult them directly."

I wonder if it's just a temporary thing, trying to avoid the eye of the CCP, or if it's permanent.

Forgot to add, it could also explain why there was a bit of a delay getting these figures out. Maybe they had to re-tool their molds for this batch. I think I'll write a message to Phicen and see if they say anything about it.

gooboo wrote:Forgot to add, it could also explain why there was a bit of a delay getting these figures out. Maybe they had to re-tool their molds for this batch. I think I'll write a message to Phicen and see if they say anything about it.  

Thanks for confirming, and for tracking down an explanation. While I had no specific plans for using these in any nude scenes, their near realism as always their main attraction, and now I can't but help think of them as somehow incomplete or broken; and I know some others are probably a lot more disappointed. I hope TBLeague sorts this out. If you do reach out to them and get a reply, please let us know.
And thank you again for your head sculpts.

I just found these promo pictures of the brown bodies on Ekiahobbies, and they do have anatomical details-

https://ekiahobbies.com/tbleague-phicen-1-6-super-flexible-female-seamless-bodies-dark-brown-pl-2023-db/

So something happened between then and now which made them change their mind. I sent a message to Phicen asking whether this is permanent or not, we'll see if they respond. I'll admit I'm mildly annoyed I didn't get the figure I thought I was getting- censorship just pisses me off in general.

I only bought one of the 'dark brown' bodies as money is tight at the moment, and while the lack of anatomical detail isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for me in itself, I do still feel vaguely cheated that I wasn't informed that they've been changed (although I do understand it's probably an issue that TBL have to navigate very carefully). As GF says, they seem somehow incomplete. In any case, I won't be buying more unless the change is reversed. Hopefully it isn't going to affect the rest of TBL's existing range of base bodies.

I wonder if the body they used for their Hapsetshut set had it's design similarly censored.

I also wonder if it's going to affect the new seamless bodies offered by other companies...

GeeWillikers wrote:I only bought one of the 'dark brown' bodies as money is tight at the moment, and while the lack of anatomical detail isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for me in itself, I do still feel vaguely cheated that I wasn't informed that they've been changed (although I do understand it's probably an issue that TBL have to navigate very carefully). As GF says, they seem somehow incomplete. In any case, I won't be buying more unless the change is reversed. Hopefully it isn't going to affect the rest of TBL's existing range of base bodies.

I wonder if the body they used for their Hapsetshut set had it's design similarly censored.

I also wonder if it's going to affect the new seamless bodies offered by other companies...

The Hatshepsut body is the same that was used for the Hindu version of the Radiant Crown Deity. Perhaps it was thus old stock, but it is indeed anatomically correct. I have both bodies, purchased from parted-out sets (Hatshepsut's just arrived today) and checked.
I suspect the issue will affect all newly produced TBL bodies at least until it is sorted out. Jiaou bodies are made by a Singapore company, if I recall, so they might be exempt, but then again they might be made in Chinese factories.

gooboo wrote:Got mine in the mail today, and can confirm that these figures are not anatomically accurate, even if the original models were. 

GeeWillikers wrote:I also wonder if it's going to affect the new seamless bodies offered by other companies...

I checked with Amelia at Giantoy, and it sounded like they were not aware of the change, but they checked on another new batch product from Phicen/TBLeague, and confirmed that it, too, had had its "secret parts" erased. It was an S21B. So we can assume that for the time being all newly produced Phicen/TBLeague bodies will be affected by this censorship policy.

I have followed up with a question about the Jiaou bodies and will let you know what I find out.

Interesting news, thanks everyone.

I guess I'm the odd one out, but this doesn't really bother me since I don't display these figures nude, and honestly prefer not to have nipples or lady bits showing through tight clothing. But I do understand why in principle it might annoy some. But personally I don't really care as long as the figures look good in the outfits I want them to wear. ;p

Bad news indeed.
Even if these details aren't visible, I'd always prefer more realistic representation.
The hope for now is if their sales fall and they'll have to reverse it (which, admittedly, is a long shot).

skywalkersaga wrote:I guess I'm the odd one out, but this doesn't really bother me since I don't display these figures nude, and honestly prefer not to have nipples or lady bits showing through tight clothing. But I do understand why in principle it might annoy some. But personally I don't really care as long as the figures look good in the outfits I want them to wear. ;p

Same


BUT I still have my problems when things as natural as our bodies can't be represented properly because of some prudery stuff (or however you will call that). 
So yeah I don't care, but at the same time I do care.  If that makes sense lol. It is about the principle here for me.

Valiarde wrote:Interesting news, thanks everyone.

Welcome, wish it were better news.

skywalkersaga wrote:I guess I'm the odd one out, but this doesn't really bother me since I don't display these figures nude, and honestly prefer not to have nipples or lady bits showing through tight clothing. But I do understand why in principle it might annoy some. But personally I don't really care as long as the figures look good in the outfits I want them to wear. ;p

I actually share your discomfort at overly and unnecessarily sexualized photos, of which overly prominent even if technically covered nipples are often a feature -- made even worse when people put infantile or anime heads on them. But otherwise it comes down to a matter of principle, and I would rather have the realistic detail and not need it than need it and not have it, in theory. And where does one draw the line? Are male nipples objectionable? Are navels (remember the old swords and sandals movies where everyone's waistline had to go above the navel) objectionable? And so on... When I first got into collecting these bodies, I wanted to see, among other things, whether I could replicate Classical or Hellenistic art and its more modern derivatives; and these certainly appreciated realism (sometimes idealized). Admittedly, I haven't done much along these lines recently, and if it had been nude, it would not have been shared here.
There have also been inquiries in private message about further anatomical correctness, and I know there are people who would be a whole lot more upset than I.

Visisonor wrote:Bad news indeed.
Even if these details aren't visible, I'd always prefer more realistic representation.
The hope for now is if their sales fall and they'll have to reverse it (which, admittedly, is a long shot).

I agree, although I don't really want to see TBLeague/Phicen hurt. From gooboo's comments above, it occurs to me that if TBLeague went ahead and re-labeled this product as "adult," it would not need to censor it. Given who buys it (adults, I'm pretty sure), that would have gotten around the problem. It also strikes me as odd that TBLeague/Phicen would be held accountable for what others (resellers, buyers) choose to do with their product.

Valiarde wrote:BUT I still have my problems when things as natural as our bodies can't be represented properly because of some prudery stuff (or however you will call that). 
So yeah I don't care, but at the same time I do care.  If that makes sense lol. It is about the principle here for me.

Well put, I feel much the same way.

Valiarde wrote:I agree, although I don't really want to see TBLeague/Phicen hurt. From gooboo's comments above, it occurs to me that if TBLeague went ahead and re-labeled this product as "adult," it would not need to censor it. Given who buys it (adults, I'm pretty sure), that would have gotten around the problem. It also strikes me as odd that TBLeague/Phicen would be held accountable for what others (resellers, buyers) choose to do with their product.

From my limited understanding of China, this whole things sounds like a pretty typical Chinese government situation. Something catches the eye of the CCP, everyone else ducks and runs for cover. My hope is that this isn't a permanent state of affairs, and things get back to normal with Phicen after someone in China gets a stern talking to, lol.

Hopefully gooboo is right and it will be a temporary issue.

gooboo wrote:
From my limited understanding of China, this whole things sounds like a pretty typical Chinese government situation. Something catches the eye of the CCP, everyone else ducks and runs for cover. My hope is that this isn't a permanent state of affairs, and things get back to normal with Phicen after someone in China gets a stern talking to, lol.

skywalkersaga wrote:Hopefully gooboo is right and it will be a temporary issue.

Amen!

According to Amelia, the censorship will be affecting the Jiaou bodies as well. She also notes that Giantoy still has Jiaou stock from older, unaffected batches of product.

Does she have any idea if this is permanent or not? Phicen hasn't responded to the message I sent them.

Interesting discussion. I personally won't miss the details. But what one does with a figure in their closed room does not affect anybody else's freedom or security. And a knife can be misused, too, after all, so there is a history of trusting the customer to use their purchases wisely. They can trust them with knives but not... action figures? 

I suspect marking the product as "adult" would affect how it can be displayed and advertised. Stores might need a separate section, websites might need to place warnings, etc. It would also likely affect their image, and judging by their insistence on their figures explicitly NOT being sex toys, that doesn't seem to be the way they want to be seen.

Jiaou bodies also being affected by this censorship is less concerning for me personally, as their female bodies have never attained the same standards of realism as TBL's (Jiaou's male bodies are far superior IMHO, although I suppose we'll also be seeing their 'optional extras' removed under this new censorship regime).

For me the real issue is more that TBLeague (and others) have chosen to stay silent about the changes, leaving customers to discover them for themselves - sometimes after considerable financial outlay. I can of course understand why they've decided to make the changes, given they're in danger of "displeasing" the Chinese authorities, and I can even understand why they're being cagey about it, but in an industry already overburdened with underhand practices from some retailers and manufacturers it doesn't make it taste any less sour. Personally speaking, it could prove to be a last straw.

My real concern going forward is whether the change is permanent or not, and how other seamless bodies that are about to be released onto the market will be affected, such as the new Verycool and MrZ releases.

Specifically, what is being changed or removed?

Genital details? Or are the busts also being redesigned?

Are the changes nominal - just "removing the lines" so to speak? Or are "big globs of plastic" being plastered on to cover things up?

Are the "extra parts" included with male bodies being discontinued? Are male chests being redesigned?

Are the changes sufficiently significant to be apparent when figures are clothed, either in revealing undergarments and swimwear or in heavier clothing?

Is the overall appearance of the bodies being changed sufficiently so as to render them "toy-like" rather than realistic?

Re-machining production molds is an expensive process. Once the details are removed from the production equipment, I seriously doubt they will ever return.

davidd wrote:Specifically, what is being changed or removed?

Genital details? Or are the busts also being redesigned?

Genital details and nipples, at least in the case of TBL's female figures - and I also assume Jiaou's. How this will extend to male figures remains to be seen (I imagine it's almost certain that the optional male genitals will not be included again in future).

Personally I could care less about 'genital details', but erasing nipples from figures is just ridiculous.

I also messaged Amelia at GianToy to ask about the situation and here's her response:

"Thanks a lot for contacting us. Yeah unfortunately this is true.

So it started from a mom that caught [her] pupil son playing with a very sexy little figurine (not 1/6 action figures in realistic style, it's one of those small anime character statues, with very tempting body details and almost no clothes I suppose), and she got so concerned to have to call the journalists to expose this as a "scandal" of the toy industry trying to poison an innocent child. So, this went up on television and aroused some debates. Government visited lots of toy factories, and require them to make sure they future products comply with the policies related to children.

It does not really matter whether the product says "only for adults" on the packaging. As long as it could be exposed to a child as a "toy", it needs to meet the regulations. It's a grey area for some of the body products in 1/6 scale, but most factories might choose to play safe. It's not an easy decision to make for them I'm sure but as a big company they need to think in the long term.

Most of the bodies we stock now are the new version, btw."


This makes it sound like it's a permanent change, that will affect all brands of seamless 1/6 figures going forward.

Well, due to various factors like finances and health concerns I've been on the fence about continuing with the hobby for a while now, and this development is just another added factor against. I've got a couple of outstanding preorders from last year still to be fulfilled, and from then on I think it'll just be the odd speciality set for me (like that cool Middle Ages Blacksmith set from Pop that was showcased last year, if it ever gets released).

All good points.

gooboo -- I have no information on how permanent or how temporary this measure would be.

GeeWillikers -- I agree that TBLeague bodies in general are better at realism and especially handling and poseability than the Jiaou ones, but as I discovered when answering someone's very specific questions, Jiaou actually includes more anatomical detail down there (don't want to be too specific). To me their male bodies suffer from overly wide hips that don't look right, although I was favorably impressed by the handling and range of motion of their most recent male body.
On a different note, while I share your disappointment and find it difficult to see the modified bodies as fully worthwhile, I'm sure you have enough to put together plenty of cool custom characters with what you've got, and that plenty of characters would still work with the censored body molds.
Thanks for the extra information. By the way, all the more reason for me to loathe those "sexy" anime things. They were always creepy to me, but I didn't realize how much trouble they are going to be.

Dave -- I do not know to what extent the male bodies would be affected; perhaps no attachable "male secret parts." But the female bodies not only have their "female secret parts" smoothed over (some more fully than others) but also have had their nipples removed.

By the way, Amelia indicated to me that while most of their TBLeague bodies are currently from new batches, they still have most of the Jiaou bodies from old batches, unaffected by this censorship. If someone wants the old versions from Giantoy, they should inquire and order soon.
support at giantoy dot com

Presumably one could do likewise with other sellers.

Thanks for sharing the response from GiantToy, GW.

It appears to me that this situation could have wide-ranging effects throughout the hobby, not just on seamless figures, but on all the collectible anime figures and figurines and on jointed figures.

The "realistic" and "stylized realism" aspects of the action figure, collectible figurine, and toy hobbies may have just come to a permanent end... unless some of the companies choose to move production to a different nation; assuming they could find a nation that would not bring to bear similar "morality laws."

Thinking the situation might change is, in my opinion, futile. The government in China never backs off.

Now I am wondering if I should begin canceling pre-orders I have in place. I mean, where will this censorship end? I do not have any "smutty" or "pr)nographic" figures on pre-order, but there's a female fig whose dress features a plunging neckline. Will the busts be downsized and the outfits "puritanized"? Will short skirts be lengthened? Will form-fitting clothing on expensive figures be redesigned to be more modest?

I wish a company could gear up to produce toys and figures in Europe or the States or Japan, but "environmental regulations" rather than "moral objections" would be the first hurdle to overcome.