Now Censored: TBLeague / Phicen and other seamless bodies

davidd wrote:Specifically, what is being changed or removed?

Genital details? Or are the busts also being redesigned?

Genital details and nipples, at least in the case of TBL's female figures - and I also assume Jiaou's. How this will extend to male figures remains to be seen (I imagine it's almost certain that the optional male genitals will not be included again in future).

Personally I could care less about 'genital details', but erasing nipples from figures is just ridiculous.

I also messaged Amelia at GianToy to ask about the situation and here's her response:

"Thanks a lot for contacting us. Yeah unfortunately this is true.

So it started from a mom that caught [her] pupil son playing with a very sexy little figurine (not 1/6 action figures in realistic style, it's one of those small anime character statues, with very tempting body details and almost no clothes I suppose), and she got so concerned to have to call the journalists to expose this as a "scandal" of the toy industry trying to poison an innocent child. So, this went up on television and aroused some debates. Government visited lots of toy factories, and require them to make sure they future products comply with the policies related to children.

It does not really matter whether the product says "only for adults" on the packaging. As long as it could be exposed to a child as a "toy", it needs to meet the regulations. It's a grey area for some of the body products in 1/6 scale, but most factories might choose to play safe. It's not an easy decision to make for them I'm sure but as a big company they need to think in the long term.

Most of the bodies we stock now are the new version, btw."


This makes it sound like it's a permanent change, that will affect all brands of seamless 1/6 figures going forward.

Well, due to various factors like finances and health concerns I've been on the fence about continuing with the hobby for a while now, and this development is just another added factor against. I've got a couple of outstanding preorders from last year still to be fulfilled, and from then on I think it'll just be the odd speciality set for me (like that cool Middle Ages Blacksmith set from Pop that was showcased last year, if it ever gets released).

All good points.

gooboo -- I have no information on how permanent or how temporary this measure would be.

GeeWillikers -- I agree that TBLeague bodies in general are better at realism and especially handling and poseability than the Jiaou ones, but as I discovered when answering someone's very specific questions, Jiaou actually includes more anatomical detail down there (don't want to be too specific). To me their male bodies suffer from overly wide hips that don't look right, although I was favorably impressed by the handling and range of motion of their most recent male body.
On a different note, while I share your disappointment and find it difficult to see the modified bodies as fully worthwhile, I'm sure you have enough to put together plenty of cool custom characters with what you've got, and that plenty of characters would still work with the censored body molds.
Thanks for the extra information. By the way, all the more reason for me to loathe those "sexy" anime things. They were always creepy to me, but I didn't realize how much trouble they are going to be.

Dave -- I do not know to what extent the male bodies would be affected; perhaps no attachable "male secret parts." But the female bodies not only have their "female secret parts" smoothed over (some more fully than others) but also have had their nipples removed.

By the way, Amelia indicated to me that while most of their TBLeague bodies are currently from new batches, they still have most of the Jiaou bodies from old batches, unaffected by this censorship. If someone wants the old versions from Giantoy, they should inquire and order soon.
support at giantoy dot com

Presumably one could do likewise with other sellers.

Thanks for sharing the response from GiantToy, GW.

It appears to me that this situation could have wide-ranging effects throughout the hobby, not just on seamless figures, but on all the collectible anime figures and figurines and on jointed figures.

The "realistic" and "stylized realism" aspects of the action figure, collectible figurine, and toy hobbies may have just come to a permanent end... unless some of the companies choose to move production to a different nation; assuming they could find a nation that would not bring to bear similar "morality laws."

Thinking the situation might change is, in my opinion, futile. The government in China never backs off.

Now I am wondering if I should begin canceling pre-orders I have in place. I mean, where will this censorship end? I do not have any "smutty" or "pr)nographic" figures on pre-order, but there's a female fig whose dress features a plunging neckline. Will the busts be downsized and the outfits "puritanized"? Will short skirts be lengthened? Will form-fitting clothing on expensive figures be redesigned to be more modest?

I wish a company could gear up to produce toys and figures in Europe or the States or Japan, but "environmental regulations" rather than "moral objections" would be the first hurdle to overcome.

I can understand dropping the genitals, but the nipples - oh, come on...
Plus, I agree with davidd: modifying the mould is an expensive affair, so a return is highly uncertain. (Even after a possible return, there would still be the worry of getting the infantilized or the anatomically correct version - there is no product labeling on this point, as if the factory considers them equivalent, when for many of us they are not.)
I have a feeling that the new skin tones now being released after years of waiting are just compensation on the part of the manufacturer for the expected drop in sales. Because this makes - for me at least - the product is less appealing and I would strongly reconsider buying it again.

Well,....... 
Any changes between the legs won't make any difference to my purchasing behaviour. 
Removing nipples is stupid, but again, won't make any difference to me, as I don't like them pushing through thin fabrics anyway. The detail I suppose could be added by those who want it. I'm sure someone will figure out a good technique.

I can imagine there being a drop in sales, as already expressed here, and I don't know how large a percentage that will be. But I'm also sure that there are many people out there who would never even look at these figures because of the shame and image attached to them by the more reserved folks. 

So this move could open up new markets. I really hope so, because I love the hobby and would rather see it flourish.

I doubt that busty bodies/figures will disappear, or that suddenly skirts get longer. But even if that was so, there will probably be someone else rising up to the occasion and filling the void. I could even see TBL starting a second brand for adult material, as long as the market is big enough to support it.

But also: AI and robots will make a big difference very soon, so maybe a "produce-on-demand"-service isn't that far away. Choosing body shape, skin color, bust size, level of detail, seamless/attached feet and having it produced and shipped on the fly could very well become reality in just a couple of years. As long as TBL want it bad enough.

*goes to look for mixed material 3D printers...*

It'll be interesting to see how TBL approach this whole issue when it comes to their next original new base body design (it's been a while now since the S52/53, so it's clearly been an issue). I suppose the release of these new skin tones could be seen as a stop-gap while they finally decided how to proceed.

Hopefully though there'll be some male bodies in these skin tones released in the meantime (with or without nipples and genitals).

GeeWillikers wrote:I also messaged Amelia at GianToy to ask about the situation and here's her response:
...

Of course, many thanks to you, GF and everyone here for clarifying all this. Amelia also deserves praise for providing all these answers.
But facepalm is my only non-obscene reaction to the situation in question. It is wrong on so many levels.

I also noticed that Worldbox has begun to censor it's promotional images for its female figures (AT201,AT202,AT203,AT204). Each figure is now wearing a top and shorts instead of having the censored nude body on the images. Hopefully this doesn't translate into them censoring the sculpt on those bodies, as I really like them.

While I personally don't mind TBLeague removing the genetalia from their bodies, removing the nipples would be unfortunate. I'd stop buying TBL bodies if this is a permanent change. But at the same time, I sort of understand where they are coming from: TBL bodies are becoming more and more mainstream and are sold in more and more "mainstream" toy stores. I lost count of how many times I'm watching a kitbash video on YouTube and the person says they can't show the body because it is "anatomically correct." This change will allow TBLeague to appease the Chinese government and cater more to the international "normie" audience.

Diana wrote:The detail I suppose could be added by those who want it. I'm sure someone will figure out a good technique.

I actually do know of a technique. I will touch on that in my thread in the general forum later this week.

Maybe this should be put into a new topic instead of just here on the skintone thread? Like an announcement for people who might not be aware of this change.

skywalkersaga wrote:Maybe this should be put into a new topic instead of just here on the skintone thread? Like an announcement for people who might not be aware of this change.

Definitely! Please do!

davidd wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:Maybe this should be put into a new topic instead of just here on the skintone thread? Like an announcement for people who might not be aware of this change.

Definitely! Please do!

Done. I will update the (now) first post to make more sense of it.

I have to admit, like Diana, losing the genitals details off the figures doesn't really bother me in the slightest, I just hope they don't decide to blanket bomb us with one body for all, like taking away all the different body shapes, male or female. For me, that would kill my interest completely. Like in real life, not everyone has the same body shape, so it's nice to have variety for our troops and characters.

What bothers me, more than the specific changes to the action figures, is that one parent, rather than accepting responsibility for what their child is allowed to see and do, is able to say: "I find this thing objectionable, therefore it should not exist."

That is a really scary idea. One person is "offended" so an entire industry must change. Hundreds of thousands of customers and collectors must submit to the personal opinion of one person.

One person... backed by a government known for totalitarian extremism.

Well put, Dave. And, as others have pointed out, I'd add that TBLeague has changed their product without informing customers and without scaling down its prices for providing inferior realism (when realism was always its selling point).

davidd wrote:That is a really scary idea. One person is "offended" so an entire industry must change.

Scary indeed. On the other hand, this works only if the government is aligned with that one opinion in the first place.
I tend to think it was actually a setup. The party decided to make life worse for the rest of the world (my mental model of any government) but presented it in such a way that idea came from "the people".

GubernatorFan wrote:And, as others have pointed out, I'd add that TBLeague has changed their product without informing customers and without scaling down its prices for providing inferior realism (when realism was always its selling point).

There was a time when an action like that would have been labeled as "bait and switch," and it was considered illegal. Not that any kind of lawsuit would make much headway against a manufacturer in China. And what would be the net result even if a lawsuit proved successful? After years in court, we'd get our sixty or seventy bucks back?

Visisonor wrote:
I tend to think it was actually a setup. The party decided to make life worse for the rest of the world (my mental model of any government) but presented it in such a way that idea came from "the people".

That seems like a plausible, and indeed probable, explanation; particularly if "the media" latched on to the story to the degree indicated in Amelia's response. The media in China is fully state controlled.

Yes there’s something rather fishy about it all. :/

Like BaM I just hope they will at least preserve the variety of body types (and now colours) we’ve come to rely on for our custom figures.

Makes no difference to me personally but I abhor censorship of any kind and think prudes can stick to their own little circles and leave the real world to itself.
Talking of banning things, I'm furious as the UK Labour Party have just announced banning swords completely in the UK as their new attack on collectors not criminals...

shovelchop81 wrote:Makes no difference to me personally but I abhor censorship of any kind and think prudes can stick to their own little circles and leave the real world to itself.
Talking of banning things, I'm furious as the UK Labour Party have just announced banning swords completely in the UK as their new attack on collectors not criminals...

No way, please be joking.... I know someone who makes Viking swords for a living!

Also how the hell is King Arthur ever supposed to return now....he'll be arrested the minute he's seen with Excalibur!

skywalkersaga wrote:

shovelchop81 wrote:Makes no difference to me personally but I abhor censorship of any kind and think prudes can stick to their own little circles and leave the real world to itself.
Talking of banning things, I'm furious as the UK Labour Party have just announced banning swords completely in the UK as their new attack on collectors not criminals...

No way, please be joking.... I know someone who makes Viking swords for a living!

Also how the hell is King Arthur ever supposed to return now....he'll be arrested the minute he's seen with Excalibur!

Holy cow!! Well, they'd better ban all kitchen knives, too, then. Cause... that makes sense! They can be thrown!

Ugh. Not even going to ask about the state of CCTV...

skywalkersaga wrote:

No way, please be joking.... I know someone who makes Viking swords for a living!

Also how the hell is King Arthur ever supposed to return now....he'll be arrested the minute he's seen with Excalibur!

Iam photographing a viking themed wedding this summer. Will be exciting. I need a simple outfit for myself until then.
I hope for your friend that he can stay in business.

And noooooooooo king arthuuuur we need you ;p

Also, this year my husband and I were planning on joining a historical martial arts group that does longsword fencing. Is that gonna be banned now????

What a ridiculous dystopian hellscape we are in...

Banning weapons of any kind from the citizens is nothing more than Authoritarianism — it’s why the Communist Left here in the US is hellbent on taking away our guns (they’re terrified of the day We The People rise up and kill every worthless corrupt and greedy piece of human garbage in our government — like we did before). But, I digress…

Diana wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:

shovelchop81 wrote:Makes no difference to me personally but I abhor censorship of any kind and think prudes can stick to their own little circles and leave the real world to itself.
Talking of banning things, I'm furious as the UK Labour Party have just announced banning swords completely in the UK as their new attack on collectors not criminals...

No way, please be joking.... I know someone who makes Viking swords for a living!

Also how the hell is King Arthur ever supposed to return now....he'll be arrested the minute he's seen with Excalibur!

Holy cow!! Well, they'd better ban all kitchen knives, too, then. Cause... that makes sense! They can be thrown!

Ugh. Not even going to ask about the state of CCTV...

Kitchen knives are used in 97% of bladed attacks, swords are less than 1%. Yes it will include reenacting, fencing, HEMA, theatre, film making, the tourist industry, parades and anything else you can think of. Sorry to go off topic Ian/Mark etc..

shovelchop81 wrote:

Diana wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:

shovelchop81 wrote:Makes no difference to me personally but I abhor censorship of any kind and think prudes can stick to their own little circles and leave the real world to itself.
Talking of banning things, I'm furious as the UK Labour Party have just announced banning swords completely in the UK as their new attack on collectors not criminals...

No way, please be joking.... I know someone who makes Viking swords for a living!

Also how the hell is King Arthur ever supposed to return now....he'll be arrested the minute he's seen with Excalibur!

Holy cow!! Well, they'd better ban all kitchen knives, too, then. Cause... that makes sense! They can be thrown!

Ugh. Not even going to ask about the state of CCTV...

Kitchen knives are used in 97% of bladed attacks, swords are less than 1%. Yes it will include reenacting, fencing, HEMA, theatre, film making, the tourist industry, parades and anything else you can think of. Sorry to go off topic Ian/Mark etc..

I have no words.

Well, bringing this thread back on topic...

Posted this in the Verycool seamless body thread, but I'll post it here too. I saw this posted on BBICN earlier today (in reference to the upcoming Verycool bodies)-

"Xiangcai customer service said that the details of this body shape have been cancelled."

I asked Giantoy if they would be able to verify this or not, we'll see what they have to say.

I also don’t care about the lack of details (I have no use for the bag of dicks from my male Jaiou figure). But I find it laughable that they think removing the detailing will keep young men from sexualizing figures. Kids still do naughty poses with Barbies. And my brother got in trouble for stealing one of my mom’s expensive collectible dolls so he could strip and stare at it. That dolls was not super detailed. Even then, her first reaction wasn’t to blame the doll.

There are a number of ways that TBL and Jiao can deal with this. I don't know much about Chinese laws of course, but aside from re-labeling their product as "Adult," they could probably produce anatomically correct "For Export Only" versions, which could only be sold to customers outside of China. They could also probably set up plants outside of China, say Thailand or someplace like that to produce these dolls.