NEW PRODUCT: HHMODEL & HAOYUTOYS: 1/6 Imperial Legion - Tyrant Commodus [Throne Edition] #18054

HHMODEL x HAOYUTOYS : 1/6 Empire Legion - Throne of Tyrants Edition
Barcode:6974202930400
NO.18054
configuration list:
 - 1/6 brand new head sculpt
 - Movable body
 - 8 replacement hands
clothing:
 - Jacket
 - Pants
 - cape
 - scarf
 - Bracers (Metal)
 - shoe
 - Greaves (metal)
 - Helmet (Metal)
 - Armor (Metal)
 
Accessories:
 - Long Shao (Metal)
 - headband (brass)
 - round platform



















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HHMODEL x HAOYUTOYS: 1/6 Imperial Legion - Throne
Barcode:6974202930417
NO.18055
configuration list:
 - Throne
 - floor









#newproduct #HHModel #HaoYuToys #ImperialLegion #Tyrant #throne #male #accessory #movie-based

Interesting. Did the first version sell well? I only picked up the parted-out head, and judging by how long it stayed in stock I don't get the feeling it was popular (but perhaps the whole set was). Even so, would a second set still have good chances of success? That said, the new head may be better, and the likeness is good at least from certain angles. It was a good call making the throne a separate piece, allowing a collector to choose how much to spend.

I love the throne.

shazzdan wrote:I love the throne.

I second that, despite the armrests that are way too low, the details look fantastic on the throne!

I wonder how useful that throne would be for something other than Ancient Rome era…

Stryker2011 wrote:I wonder how useful that throne would be for something other than Ancient Rome era…

Personally I had eyes on it (and a couple other historical offerings) to make some set ups for my game of thrones figures (it has a nice "essos" vibe)

blackpool wrote:

Stryker2011 wrote:I wonder how useful that throne would be for something other than Ancient Rome era…

Personally I had eyes on it (and a couple other historical offerings) to make some set ups for my game of thrones figures (it has a nice "essos" vibe)

Well, the throne is very Roman-like without actually being (I think!) really accurately Roman. The Roman emperor was (especially in the 2nd century AD) still too humble (or playing too humble) to sit on anything like this. I think it is essentially a fantasy piece inspired by Roman design elements (like so much neo-Classical art, architecture, and furniture in the last three centuries or more). So it is arguably more suited to various pre-modern (or even modern -- Napoleonic, etc) fantasy environments than actual Rome. Alex's idea of it in a Game of Thrones context sounds very promising to me.

GubernatorFan wrote:

blackpool wrote:

Stryker2011 wrote:I wonder how useful that throne would be for something other than Ancient Rome era…

Personally I had eyes on it (and a couple other historical offerings) to make some set ups for my game of thrones figures (it has a nice "essos" vibe)

Well, the throne is very Roman-like without actually being (I think!) really accurately Roman. The Roman emperor was (especially in the 2nd century AD) still too humble (or playing too humble) to sit on anything like this. I think it is essentially a fantasy piece inspired by Roman design elements (like so much neo-Classical art, architecture, and furniture in the last three centuries or more). So it is arguably more suited to various pre-modern (or even modern -- Napoleonic, etc) fantasy environments than actual Rome. Alex's idea of it in a Game of Thrones context sounds very promising to me.

I think your summary very ably describes it and fully captures the nuances of the issue.  Where something isn't an actual historically documented item, to at least the level of an Osprey illustration, then it can pull in one of two directions.  Some things pull you out of history altogether, more like pop art or some comic book or videogame augmented reality.  The other direction is where something doesn't break the fundamental illusion of history, and it appears loosely "credible," even if the exact thing never existed.

I think this one is reasonably the latter.  Actually I do not think that one specific physical throne was a Roman thing at all (where would it have been, Capitoline Hill?) though surely the Emperor got the biggest and most ornate chair wherever he was. The Greek and Roman Gods were portrayed on thrones, which was carried onto Christianity, but I think the whole specific ritual that went with one chair being the seat of governance Ex Cathedra was more of a later, Papal or Napoleonic thing.  But we might have to take into account that Commodus, especially the fictional versions of him, could be an exception to the "playing too humble."  Note that HY's chosen backdrop drops this throne into some building of spectacle, like a roofed circus, or maybe the coloseum with a velarium, rather than some marble hall of politics.

The text on the throne might be too limiting for more general use (though a seated figure obscures it).  Can anyone read it fully or identify it?  From "AVRP MPP IMP CAES," apart from the Imperator Caesar bit, I wonder if it is maybe something taken from a Roman coin?

Moonbase Alpha Male wrote:I think your summary very ably describes it and fully captures the nuances of the issue.  Where something isn't an actual historically documented item, to at least the level of an Osprey illustration, then it can pull in one of two directions.  Some things pull you out of history altogether, more like pop art or some comic book or videogame augmented reality.  The other direction is where something doesn't break the fundamental illusion of history, and it appears loosely "credible," even if the exact thing never existed.

I think this one is reasonably the latter.  Actually I do not think that one specific physical throne was a Roman thing at all (where would it have been, Capitoline Hill?) though surely the Emperor got the biggest and most ornate chair wherever he was. The Greek and Roman Gods were portrayed on thrones, which was carried onto Christianity, but I think the whole specific ritual that went with one chair being the seat of governance Ex Cathedra was more of a later, Papal or Napoleonic thing.  But we might have to take into account that Commodus, especially the fictional versions of him, could be an exception to the "playing too humble."  Note that HY's chosen backdrop drops this throne into some building of spectacle, like a roofed circus, or maybe the coloseum with a velarium, rather than some marble hall of politics.

The text on the throne might be too limiting for more general use (though a seated figure obscures it).  Can anyone read it fully or identify it?  From "AVRP MPP IMP CAES," apart from the Imperator Caesar bit, I wonder if it is maybe something taken from a Roman coin?

Thank you. I think you are being a bit too generous for the piece, although it does not look completely impossibly fantastical. There were chairs of state for the two consuls in the Roman senate, and although he was not an emperor in the royal sense of the word, Caesar is said to have been given, among other excessive honors, a golden throne in the senate house. There probably was no extremely elaborate throne until the late 3rd century, when emperors became increasingly more monarchical in their trappings and appearance. Rome was still technically a Republic, and the emperor was an extra-constitutional monarch who pretended to be first among equals helping to keep peace and security. "Bad" emperors (and Commodus was not the most eccentric) might flout social conventions, but they did so privately and not in public. From that point of view, the piece is over the top. But that is the movie designers' doing. Here is a photo of the relevant part of the actual prop:



The inscription, which is very reminiscent of a coin legend, reads:
IMP CAES L AVR COMMODUS ANT AVG F M AVRP M P P =
Imperator Caesar Lucius Aurelius Commodus Antoninus Augustus F (?) M (?) Aurp (?) M (?) Pater Patriae

Note the correct use of the letter form V instead of U, except in the name "Commodus," where the designers slipped and used the modern form. The first seven elements are abbreviations of titles and names, and are correct for one fleeting point early in Commodus' reign (his style changed several times), which would make sense (insofar as anything makes sense) within the film's twisted historical background. What follows AVG, however, is confusing and likely confused. It occurred to me that F might be for Felix ("fortunate"), but then it should follow a P for Pius ("pious"). More likely, they goofed up and tried to go for "filius Marci Aurelii" ("son of Marcus Aurelius") in abbreviation (getting the order wrong, as it should be "Marci Aurelii filius," and, besides, the correct form in this instance actually would have been "Divi Marci Antonini filius"), then forgot to insert the "period" before adding the P, followed by a "period" and M, for "pontifex maximus." The P P at the end stands for "Pater Patriae" ("Father of the Fatherland"). So, perhaps they were aiming at:
Imperator Caesar Lucius Aurelius Commodus Antoninus Augustus, filius Marci Aurelii [recte: Divi Marci Antonini filius], Pontifex Maximus, Pater Patriae

For a list of the actual labels on coins, see here:
https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/commodus/i.html

For Commodus' full titles at various points in his reign, see here:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_r%C3%B6mischen_Kaiser_der_Antike

This was for the movie design. It looks to me like HH & HY made some mistakes in reproducing the inscription, apparently replacing the name of Commodus with that of Constantine or Constantius or Constans (it is abbreviated as CONS), then messed up the few letters that follow, placing AVG too early, and including INV? (for "Invictus"?). They also missed the flower or rosette under the eagle.

GubernatorFan wrote:This was for the movie design. It looks to me like HH & HY made some mistakes in reproducing the inscription, apparently replacing the name of Commodus with that of Constantine or Constantius or Constans (it is abbreviated as CONS), then messed up the few letters that follow, placing AVG too early, and including INV? (for "Invictus"?). They also missed the flower or rosette under the eagle.

Most interesting and insightful. I had not realized that HH/HY made this directly from the movie (it's been a long time). Interesting how little errors and discrepancies creep in, first by the original prop designers and then by HH/HY. How appropriate to be so informed by someone who shares the Pater Patriae honorific.

In close up, the HH/HY possibly looks sharper than the original prop (which wasn't meant to be closely scrutinized). But the depth and texture of the 1/6 throne spine look like hard wood, rather than the braided fabric cushion of the prop, so it would probably be less comfortable to sit on. It might have been better actually if HH/HY had made the back as a separate fabric piece. And then Blackpool's Game of Thrones uses etc. wouldn't have had to explain away all the discordant Commodus specifics.

I'm pretty sure that second century emperors still used the Curule Seat rather than a throne. It was supposed to only be used for official duties but the Senate decreed that Caesar be allowed to use the Curule Seat everywhere he went except for the theatre and the tradition was continued by the emperors. We would call it a stool, not a chair - the legs fold flat to make them easier to transport. Caesar was the first to have the legs made from gold instead of ivory or bronze.



A full toga is very ungainly and it would be difficult to sit with dignity in a chair that had a back and armrests. A stool forces you to sit upright and maintain a dignified posture. It also was meant to be uncomfortable to sit in for long periods - forcing the official to conduct business in an efficient and timely manner.

I suspect that a throne like the one above would be considered effeminate by the Romans since only women sat in chairs in the household. Men reclined on couches.

So the above throne isn't Roman but is still very cool. It wouldn't be hard to print out a circular overlay to cover the Roman details when using it for other themes.

Moonbase Alpha Male wrote:Most interesting and insightful.  I had not realized that HH/HY made this directly from the movie (it's been a long time).  Interesting how little errors and discrepancies creep in, first by the original prop designers and then by HH/HY.  How appropriate to be so informed by someone who shares the Pater Patriae honorific.  

In close up, the HH/HY possibly looks sharper than the original prop (which wasn't meant to be closely scrutinized).  But the depth and texture of the 1/6 throne spine look like hard wood, rather than the braided fabric cushion of the prop, so it would probably be less comfortable to sit on.  It might have been better actually if HH/HY had made the back as a separate fabric piece.  And then Blackpool's Game of Thrones uses etc. wouldn't have had to explain away all the discordant Commodus specifics.

I didn't even think of that (P P). You're possibly right about HH & HY maybe going an extra mile, for example I have no idea if the real throne prop had a decorated back side or not. But it seems unsurprising that they should end up exaggerating the mistakes. Perhaps Blackpool would place Keanu's John Constantine on the throne and it will make sense with its inscription. As for Roman emperors, they would need something like the illustration provided by Dan.

It was bugging me, so I kept looking, first at the original Gladiator, the movie The Fall of the Roman Empire (same Augustan breastplate, equally inaccurate look for Commodus, although Christopher Plummer was pretty awesome)... and then I found it... not in a Hollywood movie, nor at Rome... but here:



That's right... Commodus' imperial throne is not Roman, but French. Napoleonic. Like I mentioned as a more appropriate artistic period.

GubernatorFan wrote:It was bugging me, so I kept looking, first at the original Gladiator, the movie The Fall of the Roman Empire (same Augustan breastplate, equally inaccurate look for Commodus, although Christopher Plummer was pretty awesome)... and then I found it... not in a Hollywood movie, nor at Rome... but here:



That's right... Commodus' imperial throne is not Roman, but French. Napoleonic. Like I mentioned as a more appropriate artistic period.

Well, no... obviously Napoleon had to make do with Commodus' old hand-me-down stuff...

Superbly well spotted, GF.

Napoleon’s actual real world thrones seem to have been significantly scaled down compared to the one in the painting, whose exaggeration no doubt appealed to the movie set designers.  There were 5 at the five centers of Imperial might: the Tuileries, the Palais Saint-Cloud, the Paris City Hall, and the two legislative assemblies.  The one probably closest to this one sold recently for half a Million dollars, https://www.warhistoryonline.com/news/napoleons-throne-sells-for-more.html, which may make it easier to rationalize what we'd pay HH/HY for this one.

Curiously a relatively affordable resin version of that painting exists in what appears to be 1/6 scale or close to it. https://www.napoleon-souvenirs.com/en/statuette/42-napoleon-on-the-imperial-throne.html

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Moonbase Alpha Male wrote:Well, no... obviously Napoleon had to make do with Commodus' old hand-me-down stuff...   Superbly well spotted, GF.

Well, I have my moments; they are few and far between, but I do have them.

Moonbase Alpha Male wrote:Napoleon’s actual real world thrones seem to have been significantly scaled down compared to the one in the painting, whose exaggeration no doubt appealed to the movie set designers.  There were 5 at the five centers of Imperial might: the Tuileries, the Palais Saint-Cloud, the Paris City Hall, and the two legislative assemblies.  The one probably closest to this one sold recently for half a Million dollars, which may make it easier to rationalize what we'd pay HH/HY for this one.

Curiously a relatively affordable resin version of that painting exists in what appears to be 1/6 scale or close to it.

Interesting findings, now that the research has turned to Napoleonic thrones.

Beautiful figure. If I had the Gladiator version of Maximus, I'd probably try to get this one.

At least Napoleon could use them armrests

ahbake wrote:Beautiful figure. If I had the Gladiator version of Maximus, I'd probably try to get this one.

There have been several Maximi over the years, from Pangaea to... HH & HY, I think. Not all were the gladiator version (I own an old general version), but some were. So if it is something that you like, you can probably still get both.

blackpool wrote:At least Napoleon could use them armrests

Was that because he was so short? Just kidding. I know Napoleon was not actually that short, and smug English-speakers have been misquoting his height presenting the bigger French inches as smaller English ones. Sorry, I couldn't resist. In all seriousness, there is something both cool and amusing in how something loosely inspired by Roman design ended up being used as a model for reconstructing real Roman furniture -- in the minds of Hollywood designers.

GubernatorFan wrote:In all seriousness, there is something both cool and amusing in how something loosely inspired by Roman design ended up being used as a model for reconstructing real Roman furniture -- in the minds of Hollywood designers.

Yes indeed. Probably even HH/HY didn't know the ultimate source of what they made, and maybe if they monitor their threads they learned that from you. I wonder whether the design reference was identified at the time of Gladiator, maybe in the DVD features or the Director's commentary. It was probably an interesting art process. As an incidental, I'm guessing that one of the discrepancies you pointed out -- where they correctly used V rather than U everywhere else but not in "COMMODUS" -- could have been intentional for some kind of trademark issue where the character name had to be inviolate.

I learned so much about chairs today, that's one of the reasons why I love this site/section.

Also, nice figure. Cool that they already primed and shaded the armor for further customization.

GubernatorFan wrote:
Was that because he was so short? Just kidding. I know Napoleon was not actually that short, and smug English-speakers have been misquoting his height presenting the bigger French inches as smaller English ones. Sorry, I couldn't resist. In all seriousness, there is something both cool and amusing in how something loosely inspired by Roman design ended up being used as a model for reconstructing real Roman furniture -- in the minds of Hollywood designers.

HAHAHAHA no worries Napoleon is a bit our Tom Cruise, lots of jokes and expressions come from his supposed shortness lol (not that frenchies are very tall, the average is around 177cm I believe)

Totally agree that it is funny to see how Artists find their inspiration and references, whatever the era! Thanks again for the ressearch!