Painting seamless bodies (NSFW?)

Really impressive results with the oil pastels, and thanks all for being so descriptive about the techniques. Tempted to try this on a spare white M34 Death Dealer body. I’m curious to know about the stability over time both in terms of colour and any material deterioration. Oil and some types of silicone don’t mix. For example, oil is often used as a destabiliser for silicone sealant to remove it. Some silicones are more oil resistant. No idea what Phicen’s recipe is though!

MarkEl wrote: I’m curious to know about the stability over time both in terms of colour and any material deterioration.  Oil and some types of silicone don’t mix.  For example, oil is often used as a destabiliser for silicone sealant to remove it.  Some silicones are more oil resistant.  No idea what Phicen’s recipe is though!

Ephiane and others can answer this better than me. The African body repaint is only a few days old. My original experiment (on the de-skeletalized M31 body) is a few weeks (actually almost two months) older than that, and no real issues yet. The only minor/tangent issue is that (given my typical lack of patience) I need to do more smoothing with the makeup sponge or maybe more rinsing before applying the protective powder, as there is a tiny amount of pastel transferring on tight clothing. The body does not become discolored, and I have noticed no issues with its silicon surface.

The oil pastels are on my Figures for months now and the phichen skin is in excellent condition. On the green body i used nail polish remover, very aggressiv stuff. I do this because i want the body in his old color for a another bash. no way, it´s still green ... but the effect is it looks more shiny now.

Don´t know what kind of silicon phichen used, but i´m sure they will not tell us

Now I'm going to have to give oil pastels a try. I've been avoiding it out of fear. I'm still using chalk pastels, which takes longer on a M34. does anyone use shu uemara oil products to remove stains?

Damn GubernatorFan, that came out great. Since as of now TBL has only done that one thin AA body, I feel like this pastel trick is going to be the way to go for a while still, not to mention more exotic colors I'm sure will still be needed for fantasy and scifi figures. And seeing that Tyson head on the M30 body, he looks intense as hell.

ReverendSpooky wrote:Damn GubernatorFan, that came out great.  Since as of now TBL has only done that one thin AA body, I feel like this pastel trick is going to be the way to go for a while still, not to mention more exotic colors I'm sure will still be needed for fantasy and scifi figures.  And seeing that Tyson head on the M30 body, he looks intense as hell.

Thank you, ReverendSpooky! The pastel trick does seem to be working pretty well. One limitation is that these pastels don't quite mix like normal paints, and there isn't much choice with the browns, at least from the several brands I have seen. The Mike Tyson heads work well with this, and here's another, Soldier Story's Jamie Foxx head, that works reasonably well (though not quite as well). The Wesley Snipes and John Boyega heads are too dark for this.

So I picked up one of those cool Michael Rooker/Yondu heads (just couldn't resist the excellent craftsmanship). And of course it could only be used for that one character. So I couldn't help myself coloring another M30 with oil pastels. This time it was very difficult to reach an acceptably close match (with several layers of different blues and purples), but it ended up decent enough...







For more of the makeshift Yondu (and friends), see HERE.

Fantastic ! You really mastered the oil pastel job . I planed so many bashes, but can´t finish anything. For the Blue phichen body i planed to make a female Star Wars Twilek. Maybe this is a Inspriation for You ?

Thanks for the encouragement, Ephiane. That image does look pretty sweet. And it is inspiring, though it would necessitate the creation of the Twilek ears (or whatever those things on the back of the head are). I could sculpt them, but I'd much prefer some soft and bendable material, and that is currently beyond my know-how. So far, I've been mostly experimenting with your technique of painting the bodies with oil pastels (thanks again), and even this wasn't intended as a truly specific and full kitbash as much as an experiment, even if inspired by the very specific head sculpt. But maybe one day...
So there are both blue and green Twileks? I thought Oona (spelling?) was green. Ah, the wonders of an expanded universe (oops... "legends"). Still, probably more fun than some of the recent Star Wars movies and the whole fan vs director and studio executive controversy

I could have sworn I posted on this yesterday, but...I reckon something went sideways.

Anyhow, I think the match to the sculpt is pretty damn good. Overall, the shading is very even, not splotchy. That's what impresses me the most.

Mighty fine experimental work. Hell, might fine finish work, in my book.

Damn, I think you got a great color match!!! Really impressive, and he looks perfect.

And Yondu looks totally ready for the Guardians of the Galaxy pinup calendar here:

dadrab wrote:I think the match to the sculpt is pretty damn good. Overall, the shading is very even, not splotchy. That's what impresses me the most.
Mighty fine experimental work. Hell, mighty fine finish work, in my book.

Thank you very much, dadrab! I think some of that "perfection" is a side effect of having to do extra layers when I decided he was looking too blue or too purple and went over it again with a different pastel. There are a couple of spots (especially the wrist ends of the lower arms) where I should probably do a bit more before I put it away.

ReverendSpooky wrote:Damn, I think you got a great color match!!!  Really impressive, and he looks perfect.  And Yondu looks totally ready for the Guardians of the Galaxy pinup calendar

Thank you very much, ReverendSpooky. I didn't try to do any kind of special surface patterning (scars or tattoos -- then again I don't remember seeing any in the film, and I was far more concerned about getting a decent color match overall), but I'm glad you too find it acceptable. And yes, that particular photo was inspired by that sort of stuff -- tongue in cheek, of course.

Pretty amazing coloring on that Yondu body.

Thank you, Stryker!

Well done on the Yondu figure GubFan. The blue match looks well blended to me. Really cool results.

MarkEl wrote:Well done on the Yondu figure GubFan.  The blue match looks well blended to me.  Really cool results.  

Thank you very much, Mark! The experimentation continues, I might be able to post on a new, darker African body in a few moments.

I just completed (more or less) another oil pastel on a TBLeague/Phicen silicone body. I was trying to match the skin tone on the HT Finn head. The challenge was in part because oil pastels tend to come with very limited brown options, and of course are not as blendable as conventional paints (not only is oil pastel blendability somewhat limited, but it also varies from product to product, or so I read). I think I got pretty close with several coats of brown, red, blue, green, and more brown, although the protective powder dulled the color a little bit, detracting from the closeness of the match (the head is a bit warmer in tone). The relative shininess of the head sculpt also detracts from that closeness in the photos. This time matching the hands and feet painted with acrylics to the body was easier. At any rate, I was able to make a darker African body, which I might retouch in future, when more oil pastels arrive.

Here it is, first by itself, then compared to the first attempt (with a different Mike Tyson head than before). Let me know what you think and if you have helpful suggestions.

Great Work on the Fighters, Gubernator!  I insert one of the Swamptroll Pics here, because she has a Painted seamless body and shows what is possible with a pichen body
For example, the Barbarian Guy next to the Troll has the same Body like her.

Thank you, Ephiane! And thank you again for teaching us the oil pastel trick and continuing to exhibit ever more complex work, like your troll. It is almost impossible to imagine that her body is a modified version of the barbarian next to her, what with the ankle and wrist extensions, and the built-up chest and shoulders.

Damn GubernatorFan, you really did a hell of a good job matching those head sculpts. You mentioned the issue with the noticeable difference in texture, but I think that's something we deal with on all plastic heads on rubber bodies. It's just that much more apparent to you since you're the one doing it.

Ephiane, I'm still completely awed by that troll body. Seeing her next to the barbarian just makes it all the more apparent how complete that transformation is. Inspiring work as always.

ReverendSpooky wrote:Damn, GubernatorFan, you really did a hell of a good job matching those head sculpts.  You mentioned the issue with the noticeable difference in texture, but I think that's something we deal with on all plastic heads on rubber bodies.  It's just that much more apparent to you since you're the one doing it.

Thank you very much, ReverendSpooky! In some earlier posts in this thread, Ephiane has actually outlined a technique to make the silicone surface a bit shinier, which might actually help in cases like these.

GubernatorFan wrote:

ReverendSpooky wrote:Damn, GubernatorFan, you really did a hell of a good job matching those head sculpts.  You mentioned the issue with the noticeable difference in texture, but I think that's something we deal with on all plastic heads on rubber bodies.  It's just that much more apparent to you since you're the one doing it.

Thank you very much, ReverendSpooky! In some earlier posts in this thread, Ephiane has actually outlined a technique to make the silicone surface a bit shinier, which might actually help in cases like these.

Oh, I remember! I'm itching to take a crack at it myself, but haven't had the right project yet. Still, quite inspired by all your success.

ReverendSpooky wrote:Oh, I remember!  I'm itching to take a crack at it myself, but haven't had the right project yet.  Still, quite inspired by all your success.

I've picked up a few more African heads for the painted bodies, Muhammad Ali and Will Smith among them.

These are all amazing! Gives me hope for some of my planned SW 'alien' customs.

Not sure I'd have the courage to try this on a tbleague until I was able to get the technique right. Does anyone know if the oil pastels would work on something that was partially seamless, like the PopToys bodies? I am trying to avoid having to resort to using fabric dye, if possible...

That reminds me, is the technique for using the chalk pastels similar to that of applying the oil pastels, or do you have to grind them up and apply them with a brush or something? I think I would prefer the more dusty look of chalk, but do the chalk pastels have more of a risk of staining, marking, or transferring colour to clothes/accessories/ one's hands/other figures? I like to handle my figures a lot, which is one of the reasons I haven't tried anything like this yet, I feared it would be too messy...

And GubernatorFan - What kind of powder are you using to 'set' the oil pastels?

skywalkersaga wrote:These are all amazing! Gives me hope for some of my planned SW 'alien' customs.

That reminds me, is the technique for using the chalk pastels similar to that of applying the oil pastels, or do you have to grind them up and apply them with a brush or something? ... I like to handle my figures a lot, which is one of the reasons I haven't tried anything like this yet, I feared it would be too messy...

And GubernatorFan - What kind of powder are you using to 'set' the oil pastels?

Thank you very much. Ephiane invented the technique, I simply ran with it. You list the exact reason I didn't try to apply chalk powder instead. It seemed too impermanent and transferable to me. I don't know that you have to use anything to "set" the oil pastels -- just rub them down a lot with a make-up sponge, until you notice they do not transfer on (say) a test piece of fabric or paper towel. I do use silicone finishing powder (NYX Professional Makeup Studio Finishing Powder Translucent Finish) because I would do so on the seamless bodies after washing them anyway (and you would have washed them to remove the protective powder before applying the oil pastels in the first place), but I am not certain if it is actually necessary after the silicone surface has been covered with the oil pastel. I figure, better safe than sorry. By the way, you could use starch or baby powder just as well.

The above works for the silicone flesh used by Phicen/TBLeague. Jiaou uses a different rubbery flesh, although in theory it works pretty much the same way, so we're guessing the above would apply. Similarly with other rubbery seamless coverings, but they might all be something else, so you might stumble upon something that defies the technique.

EDIT: We have since found out that Phicen/TBLeague actually uses TPE (not silicone), just like Jiaou, although the two TPE materials might be slightly different.

GubernatorFan wrote: [...] I don't know that you have to use anything to "set" the oil pastels -- just rub them down a lot with a make-up sponge, until you notice they do not transfer on (say) a test piece of fabric or paper towel. I do use silicone finishing powder (NYX Professional Makeup Studio Finishing Powder Translucent Finish) because I would do so on the seamless bodies after washing them anyway (and you would have washed them to remove the protective powder before applying the oil pastels in the first place), but I am not certain if it is actually necessary after the silicone surface has been covered with the oil pastel. I figure, better safe than sorry. By the way, you could use starch or baby powder just as well.

The above works for the silicone flesh used by Phicen/TBLeague. Jiaou uses a different rubbery flesh, although in theory it works pretty much the same way, so we're guessing the above would apply. Similarly with other rubbery seamless coverings, but they might all be something else, so you might stumble upon something that defies the technique.

Ahh, ok, I understand. I was confused and thought the powder was for the oil pastels, but it's for the actual body itself and is akin to you would use anyway to add to the surface so it doesn't get too 'sticky', is that right?

I will bear in mind the potential differences between the silicone , jiaou type material, and the 'partially seamless' (rubber?) body coverings. I have no idea what the PopToys covering is made of, but I'll try to see if I can find out how effective the oil technique is on it (if it even works at all).

Another question: has anyone attempted to use ink-based, permanent watercolours on these kinds of bodies? Ether the silicone or on other types of rubber?

And finally, I saw that you'd tried permanent marker on the Jiaou experiment. I'm curious if one could colour an entire body, or even just the visible portions of it with a permanent marker? I'd even settle for being able to colour just (parts of) the rubber torso  on jointed bodies that way. (I'm trying to do anything and everything to avoid having to do the 'immersion in fabric dye' method, lol.)

skywalkersaga wrote:Ahh, ok, I understand. I was confused and thought the powder was for the oil pastels, but it's for the actual body itself and is akin to you would use anyway to add to the surface so it doesn't get too 'sticky', is that right?

Correct. I suppose I thought the finishing powder might lessen any potential chance that the oil pastel might transfer, but the primary motivation was that it is supposed to be applied to the silicone surface to keep it from getting sticky.

skywalkersaga wrote: I will bear in mind the potential differences between the silicone , jiaou type material, and the 'partially seamless' (rubber?) body coverings. I have no idea what the PopToys covering is made of, but I'll try to see if I can find out how effective the oil technique is on it (if it even works at all).

Just checked it again (didn't want to get the acronym wrong): Jiaou's rubbery flesh is supposedly TPE (Thermoplastic elastomer, of which there are apparently different kinds).

skywalkersaga wrote: Another question: has anyone attempted to use ink-based, permanent watercolours on these kinds of bodies? Ether the silicone or on other types of rubber?

I haven't tried watercolor, but I doubt it will work. Acrylic paint did not.

skywalkersaga wrote: And finally, I saw that you'd tried permanent marker on the Jiaou experiment. I'm curious if one could colour an entire body, or even just the visible portions of it with a permanent marker? I'd even settle for being able to colour just (parts of) the rubber torso  on jointed bodies that way. (I'm trying to do anything and everything to avoid having to do the 'immersion in fabric dye' method, lol.)

What I tried wasn't a normal permanent marker (like a Sharpie) but acrylic marker (by Molotow, admittedly that is also supposedly permanent), on a Jiaou body. For smaller details (like tattoos) on areas that are not subject to much stretching (i.e., not joints) it might work well enough. At the joints, when they are stretched/bent, you see cracks or gaps on the stretched-out part of the surface. Your question about the permanent marker comes down to whether the permanent marker can in effect cause a permanent stain on the surface that will not rub off or be absorbed and fade away. I suspect it will not flake or have gaps like the acrylic, but apart from that I don't know whether it would be successful. I have moved since my experiments and my experimental subjects were either tossed or temporarily misplaced, so I can't do a quick TBLeague or Jiaou check.

I understand and share your reluctance to use the "immersion in fabric dye" method -- apparently results are usually uneven, require multiple immersions, and are accompanied by infernal stench. That's why I went with the oil pastel, which is apparently both easy and successful, at least on the Phicen/TBLeague silicone bodies. Other complicated methods include silicone paint (which requires mixable dyes, a respirator mask and other equipment), or (for small details and a removable solution) mixing silicone paint (like silc pig) with silicone glue. I used this for painting unpainted nipples on the silicone bodies. The result was quite decent, but if you wanted to undo it, you could scrape/rub it off the underlying silicone surface.

Thank you for all the clarifications, GubernatorFan. You are likely right that watercolour will not work, but my reason for thinking *permanent* watercolour might have a chance of staining it is that it's ink-based, and I was sort of thinking that maybe it would have a similar effect as the fabric dye, but I'm probably totally off on that. :p

And thanks also for the clarification re: the markers. I have a jointed body that I am hoping to colour (as well as some potential seamless ones), but it has a rubber torso which I has been proving an issue.  I was thinking to just paint the hard plastic limbs with Vallejo acrylics, and then use a permanent marker on the areas of the torso that will be showing (the upper body, neck, shoulders, etc). But maybe this is a ridiculous idea. If so, then colouring the jointed bodies without resorting to fabric dye will prove just as challenging if not even moreso than the seamless ones. I will try to experiment with the permanent marker idea, just in case...

This thread has at least given me hope for the seamless bodies, and may mean I'll even be able to use that smaller s27b type body (albeit for a different character than I'd original planned) after all. : )

Another question for GubernatorFan, and apologies if it is a daft one, but... does the Nyx finishing powder 'transfer' at all onto hands , gloves, or other figures (when handling a 'painted' seamless figure I mean)? I realize that the whole point of it is to 'finish' the makeup so it doesn't smudge, but does the powder *itself* rub off onto other things?