Ebay and other online Scammers

Well, they have and it's been hitting us hard in the wallet. My loss didn't really impact me, but, it may do others. That's why it's important for threads like this to exist, forewarned is forearmed.

I think much of it goes down to aggressive sales practices that would not be considered appropriate for most of us -- pushing products without clearly admitting they are pre-orders, then asking you to wait for months on end until it actually becomes available, at which point you would no longer be covered by eBay protection, sending you a "gift" in the meantime, which gets them off the hook as they could prove to eBay that they sent something with tracking (or that you agreed to their proposal, whatever), etc. Then if you want to cancel your order, first they try to get you to exchange for something actually in stock (and then there is more guesswork and back and forth), or they cancel the order at the customer's request, something that apparently has a slightly negative effect on one's account's standing. I suppose that if one bears out with it, in most cases it will not turn out to be an outright scam (as in you would probably get your product in the end), but the practice -- and the process -- can be very disconcerting.

I recently tried to purchase something from a seller I have worked with before without problems. The information literally advertised that it is "ready to ship" and the product year was "2019," so I figured it was safe to order. Then they get back to me with a message about it being a "pre-sale" item and am I willing to wait, or buy something else, or get a refund, and offering to send a gift with a tracking number. I had read enough about this here to know where this was going (whether or not they meant to cheat me in the end), so I ended up requesting and getting a refund. I don't know if they were just being sloppy copy-pasting the information containing "ready to ship" (etc.) or purposefully trying to get people to buy in the hope they don't get mad and stick with it, but it was annoying. This -- and the sorry, this is actually out of stock, do you want something else routine -- seems to be getting increasingly common. It is probably a typical enough practice when looking at stuff in a shop or a market and then haggling over it, but it still seems inappropriate for eBay to me. Yet, as has been discussed by others, eBay is generally looking the other way and remarkably ineffective in enforcing its own policies.

GubernatorFan wrote:I think much of it goes down to aggressive sales practices that would not be considered appropriate for most of us -- pushing products without clearly admitting they are pre-orders, then asking you to wait for months on end until it actually becomes available, at which point you would no longer be covered by eBay protection, sending you a "gift" in the meantime, which gets them off the hook as they could prove to eBay that they sent something with tracking (or that you agreed to their proposal, whatever), etc. Then if you want to cancel your order, first they try to get you to exchange for something actually in stock (and then there is more guesswork and back and forth), or they cancel the order at the customer's request, something that apparently has a slightly negative effect on one's account's standing. I suppose that if one bears out with it, in most cases it will not turn out to be an outright scam (as in you would probably get your product in the end), but the practice -- and the process -- can be very disconcerting.

I recently tried to purchase something from a seller I have worked with before without problems. The information literally advertised that it is "ready to ship" and the product year was "2019," so I figured it was safe to order. Then they get back to me with a message about it being a "pre-sale" item and am I willing to wait, or buy something else, or get a refund, and offering to send a gift with a tracking number. I had read enough about this here to know where this was going (whether or not they meant to cheat me in the end), so I ended up requesting and getting a refund. I don't know if they were just being sloppy copy-pasting the information containing "ready to ship" (etc.) or purposefully trying to get people to buy in the hope they don't get mad and stick with it, but it was annoying. This -- and the sorry, this is actually out of stock, do you want something else routine -- seems to be getting increasingly common. It is probably a typical enough practice when looking at stuff in a shop or a market and then haggling over it, but it still seems inappropriate for eBay to me. Yet, as has been discussed by others, eBay is generally looking the other way and remarkably ineffective in enforcing its own policies.

Can agree to all of this. Preorders on Ebay are absolutely a terrible idea, and if it weren't for some of the... questionable decisions made on their end as of late (direct bank account link to even sell, for instance), I'd be surprised that they hadn't already made it against policy.

Well said Gubernator!

GubernatorFan wrote:The information literally advertised that it is "ready to ship" and the product year was "2019," so I figured it was safe to order. Then they get back to me with a message about it being a "pre-sale" item and am I willing to wait, or buy something else, or get a refund, and offering to send a gift with a tracking number.

...as has been discussed by others, eBay is generally looking the other way and remarkably ineffective in enforcing its own policies.

This is pretty much a textbook definition of "Bait and Switch" and is illegal in the U.S., the U.K., Australia, and Canada. Items advertised as being available must be available for purchase:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch

There's not much that any of us, as individuals, can do about this, other than to stop buying from China-based sellers. I am hoping that one of these days, a well-financed entity presses charges against eBay, holding them responsible for the actions of their corporate sellers. If this were an occasional occurrence involving individual sellers, that would be one thing, but obviously the practice has become widespread and involves multiple large-scale operators. eBay is failing to comply with laws in multiple countries, and even the numbers of similar experiences reported here and on other forums is too great for eBay to legitimately claim they are unaware of the problem or of a pattern.

Unfortunately, in my many years of experience both buying and selling on eBay, I have observed that whenever a "crackdown" occurs, it is the small-time individual sellers who take the hit. eBay rarely, if ever, enforces punitive action against large-scale international sellers.

You can't really tar all Chinese sellers with the same brush though, there are some good ones, it just gets harder to work out exactly who is. If you know that you have a trusted seller, stick with them.

Speaking of: anyone have experience with fightingqueentoy? They have a couple of things I'm struggling to find elsewhere.

Not ringing any bells, alarm or otherwise. Scrutinise their feedback thoroughly. If something doesn't look right don't buy.

Tomorrow will be thrilling.

I just got an email from DHL / sc_store9999 that I will receive a parcel. The only order still open from this store is a figure I prordered in February 2020  and which got released and parted out on ebay in november 2020.

Lets see what I will find inside this package tomorrow.

I hope it's what you wanted, just be prepared for it not to be. if it's not, take pics of everything, you'll need it to file a case.

Rogerbee wrote:
I hope it's what you wanted, just be prepared for it not to be. if it's not, take pics of everything, you'll need it to file a case.

Oh, yeah. Normally I wouldn't get my hopes up AT ALL. I know the tricks of these sellers by now. But this store send me a HS which I bought 9 month ago, so my expectation weren't zero. I mean why send a package after 1,5 years instead of just nothing and blocking me?

In the end, I got four cool bird watching telescopes today.  Well, that is certainly nice, if you are into birds!
At least he responded and is in for a solution so lets see what happens next

They sent you telescopes when you ordered a figure!? I'd be having words.

LOL I am into birds -- to a point -- but the feeder is quite close to the patio and no telescopes needed. Well... I hope you enjoy it.

My latest 'sorry friend it is damaged' template letter, from a seller named szly1_63 (they have a fairly good feedback score to be fair, but I'm so sick of this **** now from ebay sellers):

"Dear friend
Sorry to bother you , there is a situation i should let you know:
Just now we received this item from the manufacture, but when we opened it, we found it was defective and the manufacture said the new bulk need a long time, sorry for this.
But please don't worry, there have many other item in our shop, you can choose a replacement, is it okay?
Waiting for your news.
Best Regards"

Almost word-for-word the exact same message I've received now from at least a dozen (seemingly) different sellers on ebay and aliexpress, for up to around 15 different transactions (mostly head sculpts), over the last six months or so.

Each time, we will do a week-long dance where I will insist on a refund which they will eventually give, but then claim that I requested a cancellation on a sale they made in good faith - leaving any stain on my buying record rather than their selling record - with no redress or appeal for me.

It's a bizarre business model on the seller's part. Sure it might keep them afloat for a few more weeks in these uncertain times, but it actively discourages return buyers.

Ebay, meanwhile? Well ebay is just broken, possibly beyond repair. I think I'm done buying from Chinese ebay (and aliexpress) sellers now.

One for the 'burned out' thread, possibly.

That really sucks, GeeW. I don't have anything encouraging to say, since this seems to be an incredibly widespread issue and a lot of it ends up as 'luck of the draw'. :/

Makes me glad I got out of the 1/6 figure game. If you're on FB, follow OneSixthKit and KGHobby, they post whenever a PO goes live. Jump on board as soon as they do and they won't let you down. Kit will also post if there are spare units available, jump on them as soon as too!

I'd stick with them and avoid eBay, certainly for figures. I'm into garage kits and have a very high hit rate when it comes to them on eBay, as long as you avoid Thailand!

Well in a fit of righteous indignation, I messaged the seller thus:

"Hello,

Following a protracted processing time for this item (purchased 6th October 2021), you have sent a message (dated 16th October 2021) about the item being 'defective' and offering what amounts to 'store credit' rather than a full refund of the purchase price.

For your information, I am fully aware that this particular 'selling practise' is now becoming very common with items of this type on Ebay.

As you have already informed me that I will not be receiving the above product which I purchased in good faith from you, and which your listing suggests is 'in stock', I am considering your message as notice of 'item not received' and informing you of such. I would now like an immediate refund in full, or I will be escalating the matter with Ebay at the earliest opportunity.

I should also like it to be noted that I am *not* asking that the transaction be canceled, and I have not done so at any point in our communications. You, the seller, are the party who is unable to fulfill their side of this purchase agreement.

Thank you."

A bit snotty, but still within the bounds of legally-formal politeness. I don't really care if they understand the nuances or not, but I look forward to him cursing my descendants and my ancestors soon.

I bypassed Messages, and sent it through the order details page using 'Ask the seller a question',  which will hopefully give me the option to escalate after 7 days. The most important thing is that Ebay will see the above message if it does escalate. So we'll see what happens. I don't want to wait until January 2022 to sort out this shenanigans.

But yeah, this is feeling very much like the last time I'll be using unfamiliar sellers on Ebay and AliEx, even if the list of trusted sellers is near-microscopic.

You tell 'em!

I remember once getting a bust from Thailand and it was taking a long time to arrive. Messages were sent back and forth, the item wasn't on tracking anywhere, so, eventually, the seller and I agreed that the parcel had gone well and truly AWOL and he gave me a refund.

Well, you could imagine my surprise when, about a week or so later, the bust actually turned up! The listing was closed so I couldn't leave feedback or anything, so, I basically got the item free and left it at that.

However, I highly doubt it will be the same story where these chancers are concerned. Oh no, they've well and truly left us up the creek and claimed that the paddle is either damaged or lost in the post!

Hope you get your money back.

Rogerbee wrote:You tell 'em!

I may make it a template

I don't bother replying any more. As soon as I get a message like that, I escalate it immediately. Ebay's systems only flag bad sellers if they have low review ratings and cases get escalated.

Rogerbee wrote:You tell 'em!

I remember once getting a bust from Thailand and it was taking a long time to arrive. Messages were sent back and forth, the item wasn't on tracking anywhere, so, eventually, the seller and I agreed that the parcel had gone well and truly AWOL and he gave me a refund.

Tracking is for the seller, not the buyer. If they skimp and don't use tracking, then they run the risk of cases like this where they have to refund even though the parcel is still en route.

At least I got what I ordered, which is more than anyone will this time. With the Limtoys figures, they all got delayed by Covid, so it played right into the scammer's hands. They knew they could take the money and run before any figure ever showed up. It will only be now that their Arthur Morgan is coming out that some buyers will realise that the figure they 'pre-ordered' won't be on their doorstep anytime soon.

So... that message to the seller seems to have worked... ish.

Woke up to this in my inbox:

"Really sorry to make you so worried, friend, we just cancelled it and refunded to you
Hope we can give you more help in the future"

I love their use of the term 'worried'.    

The money is already refunded.

BUT: The seller has of course claimed that I requested to cancel the transaction.

I'm reporting him to Ebay (because I'm Mad As Hell And I'm Not Going To Take This Anymore ). Not that I expect they'll penalise him in any way, but if I kick up enough fuss I can, hopefully, get it struck from my buying record.

Excelsior!

Sounds like a plan,

I hope you kept copies of all your transactions and correspondence, that way you have proof to show eBay what they've been up to. Glad you got your refund.

A lot of collectors rate Loontentoys and I have pre-ordered the Hot Toys Wonder Woman Golden Armor on Ebay from them reasoning that I always have Paypal's 6 months protection.

The problem is I am coming up near the 6 months limit now and there is still no definite date on the release.

WW Golden Armor is pre-sold out everywhere except for some ridiculous pricing with some unknown sellers.

Do you guys think I should hold on or is it very unlikely Loontentoys will honour the order once the 6 months protection is passed?

Has anybody else preorder from them beyond the 6 months and still got their orders ok?




I did post this question in another forum and got just two positive feedback for Loontentoys so I am still very unsure. I am hoping members on this board will have more experience with Loonten ...

Don't risk it. Get a refund. The popular items will be offered again.

I’ve never ordered from them before, but I’ve also never heard anyone complain about them. In this day and age, however, that doesn’t mean much. I would take shazzdan’s advice if you’re worried about it.

I suppose I was really waiting for at least one or two people to confirm they got scammed by Loontentoys.

But so far, I have had two positives on the other forum from people that pre-order frequently from him (even 2yrs before!) and got their orders no problem.

In fact, in all my google search I have not found even one person that claim they got scammed by them which seems reassuring.

With the more popular figures, surely you have to pre-order.

Look at the Hot Toys Harley Quinn - this is frequently fetching well beyond £500 on EBay now.

That would definitely price me out of the market (not that I actually pre-ordered Harley as that was way before I began getting into this hobby).

There have been a dozen or so Harley Quinns already from various companies. If you want a Hot Toys one then just wait for the next movie, HT will release another one.