How to Color a Phicen / TBLeague with Shoe Cream

Skywalkersaga, thank you for your insight! So rarely do I hear it described from the female perspective that I am fascinated by your input. I try to get an angle from my wife on the occasion but it would be a rather forced answer since none of this is her cup of tea. Not cute enough! With the functionality of Phicen/TBL products in particular being far superior to plastic jointed figures, you would think that another company would at least attempt to fill the market void in more realistically shaped/detailed/varied seamless figures... But alas, as GubernatorFan has illuded to, Phicen's armature patents are likely to be a tough workaround for them. At least Phicen/TBL's latest line of female bodies such as the S28/29 or S46/47 does indicate a move toward the more natural female curvature, with a waistline wide enough to hold human digestive organs (lol), so I do very much commend them for that. With the older types, it was a logistic challenge for me to clothe and conceal certain skin and bone areas in order to increase plausible realism, while these new figure types allow for a less tactical approach to maintain realism. My armature invention is extremely versatile allowing me to create virtually any four limbed creature. The Homosapien is to my imagination the least fulfilling challenge as of now... but I would absolutely love to tackle the human form when my 'creature' passion has run its course.

I am very much looking forward to the big reveal of your armature!

Regarding TBL and seamless bodies:
I understand the idea, that bodies with less detailed reproductive organs might sell better internationally and therefore give our hobby a boost. But a few of the TBL female bodies already don't have details (or just vague details), in fact the earliest ones did!,  and I don't see retailers selling those models either. Of course they still have nipples... And maybe it is too late for TBL, since the mere association with detailed alternatives might frighten away retailers. 

I despise this kind of cultural censorship though. It is not the sight of a nipple that ruins kids. It is the unhealthy reactions they witness that potentially imprint them unhealthily.

In any case, of course I would appreciate more realism elsewhere on these bodies. I remember a few years ago there were discussions as to how much blushing and whatnot was done on the released bodies. Nowadays it seems normal that there is none.

However, I also understand that additional detail - may it be in sculpting muscles or painting/shading - would cost more. So I would appreciate the occasional more detailed body release, but I'd prefer the majority of releases to focus on keeping the pricing steady and therefore the results somewhat stylised.

Then again, we already have so many of those. So if they were to start releasing athletic/curvy bodies in various sizes with higher detail in the sculpt, I'd get about two per year for sure, even if they cost 20 to 40 bucks more. After all it is the increased muscle definition that has had me buy more of the S22/23 than any other body, despite the ridiculous upper thighs.

OneSixthPractical -- I'm glad my input was helpful in some way. : )

And Diana -- I'm not against genitalia on these figures, and I certainly don't find that offensive in and of itself whatsoever. It's only the wildly unrealistic body shapes of the figures that bothers me, because I don't like the idea of the design being catered to someone's fetishistic fantasy ideal of a human body. It would be nicer to be using seamless bodies that had more realistic -- and thus more neutral -- associations. As OneSixthPractical says, at least Tbleague has made some slightly more realistic bodies lately (curvy female bodies), but there's still certain things that bother me about those, so I'd defintely welcome an even more realistic approach.

Good points all round. I think it is interesting that (unlike Jiaou?), TBLeague has occasionally reined itself in, as it did relatively recently with a female body it marketed as a teenager one (S44A-S45A). A long time ago, its second male body (M31) came without the controversial appendages. In the "teenager" body case they might have been trying to preemptively tone down any accusations of being sleazy and exploitative. M31 may have been a response to too much prudish reaction to M30 (it certainly addressed other criticism, like the less realistic greyish skintone and the overly short stature). While I am not in the business of making sixth-scale pornography, I think both decisions, while understandable, were mistakes, although I am not a fan of either body for other reasons. Actually, TBLeague has redressed some of the mistakes with M31 since -- it is now complete and with better wrist joints that don't come apart (however, the basic body shape with the stretched out torso and the noodle elbows remains, I think). But the point is that they should not trim back on what they have offered before -- whether it is appendages or accessories, and if they advertise their products as realistic and anatomically correct, they should be. I may usually only need seamless shoulders, elbows, and knees, maybe abs, but I will usually not consider spending more than (say) $30 on a body that is not "realistic," i.e., not versatile enough for any conceivable purpose/look. Speaking of which, I agree with Sky and Practical, that by catering (and repeatedly so) to certain tastes, TBLeague has ended up dialing up the potential creepiness factor of their products. For this reasons and, again, realism, I agree they should be making more realistic and less "inflated" bodies, in a wider range of offerings, that would go a long way farther than the verbal disclaimer "this is not a sex toy" they include in their promotional materials. And, indeed, these are not sex toys (I don't think you can have sex with one -- please don't correct me if I'm wrong). But, yes, I can see what you mean, and I have cringed at it often enough myself.

Sky, for the record: I wasn't commenting on your comment, but on western society's norms. ^^

I understand the stigma, and I hesitate to talk about my very creative and story-inspiring hobby because of that, which is a shame. And TBL aren't doing anything to counter that impression. A part of me thinks "and why should they?" and then another responds "so that I can freely share my hobby and not be judged for it!"

Then again, once you start researching TBL bodies you'll inevitably stumble over photos that show them being used to enact sexual fantasies, so I don't know whether removing the details would remove the stigma.

I am happy with the body types we have. I'm mostly missing shorter versions of the very tall body types. And an S23B with normal legs. But when I see some of those gorgeous custom upper body sculpts on this site,... well,... I want those, too!

Just wanna say I really enjoy reading these meta discussions

Phicen fills a certain market niche and they fill it extremely well. The current esthetic of their seamless line is detailed enough not to look too cartoonish, and sexy enough for most not to care either way. They needn't change a single thing about that existing line, its beloved. But if I had Phicen's ear by some cosmic happenstance... my suggestion to them would be to not settle on it. Expand beyond their current niche and level up on the wow-factor. Their superior skeletal armatures deserve superior skin. A new line of seamless bodies for the detail-oriented collector with an upgraded package. Call it 'deluxe, elite, prime, pro' whatever. E.g. While Hot Toys has made steady incremental improvements over the years, In-Art (Queen Studio brand) recently came out with a bang and has risen the visual detail bar on the entire 1/6 market within a matter of weeks. Phicen has the potential for that and more. Skin detail enhancement needn't cost them extra either.

As to what Diana touched upon, Phicen's now discontinued paint app was a way to create the illusion of detail where 3D dimensional detail was lacking. For example, in the movie '300' the cast playing Spartan soldiers did not have six pack abs. Their gym-bods were insufficient so shadow lines were painted on their stomachs and chest to add definition by the makeup artists. For seamless bodies, extra dimensional detail in the actual sculpt itself would increase shadow and highlight to create tonal color variations all on its own, eliminating the need for any such paint app. The human skin has fold-lines all over, creases at the elbows/knees, tightness, looseness, spottiness and smoothness everywhere in between. That is what separates great works of anatomical art from mere sexy and shapely representations. Since today's game/TV/film visual standards have risen to the point where such detail is expected in the final render, 3D artists do not over charge for it.

For what those figures retail for, 3D asset costs are small. What costs them the most is their skeletal armature production, since each new body size will require an alteration to several machine-manufactured parts, each requiring its own metal press and configuration inputs in its automation. Thats what they want to avoid, and they can. They need only to ask the 3D artist to reconfigure the asset's pose to match the lengths and angles at which the limbs and the neck of a Phicen steel armature is placed within the injection mold. If Phicen went for it, with sufficient taste, market expansion could be colossal, and their wider artistic usage could elevate the craft to match what is happening across the field. As for naughty parts for the new, my suggestion would be: milder shaped without detail for female, milder shaped flaccid for the male, not a stiffy. No censorship, just tasteful. The suggestion is a mere inclusion, not a subtraction from what we've come to love. I understand and respect the commercially driven decision derived from the fact that 'sexiness' sells, but realism I would argue is a larger market within the field of 1/6. We strive to maximize detail on everything from heads, hands to the A-Z of attire. Bodies are rather behind.

Here's a random sampling of the grade of anatomical 3D assets that are easily found when you browse Artstation.com, my fav. They have extrusions indicating the presence of rib cage, collar bone, hip bone, muscles and tendons. Even on non-muscular figures, we see accurate indicators of their presence beneath the skin. These artists go beyond shape, adding 3D skin texturing, fold lines, veins, elbow creases etc.

Possibly Adult content, click spoiler to open:

Diana, these conflicting thoughts make perfect sense.

Sorry, Practical, had to place your reference images in a Spoiler. They are still accessible, of course.
 
Completely agree with your first paragraph.
The second, about shading, reminds me of the parody Meet the Spartans and of the very artificial looking highlighting on the LDDOLL male seamless body -- it can be done well, but it can be done very poorly, too.
The suggestion in the third paragraph does not constitute inclusion (addition), it is substitution. And since TBLeague has convinced itself that this type of thing sells, I doubt that they would go for this - it will cost them some customers and it won't silence some of their critics. Besides, where male "appendages" are concerned, having them detachable provides for a more prudish option. I do think it would be advisable to invest in more models and maybe a limited lower cost line that is child-friendly. However, they would have to be convinced that this will give them a big boost of revenue, because otherwise they are safer with what they are known for. Personally, I don't need these things to be particularly explicit, but cutting back on realism doesn't resonate with me. Perhaps it is the principle of the thing.

GubernatorFan, I've mosaic'd any possible naughty bits and re-uploaded the images. I hope these edits will suffice. Saving readers a click!

Yes you're probably right... Nothing about the pattern of Phicen's decisions indicates a willingness for any bold new shifts. Well... I've said my piece. If an emerging brand desires to challenge King Phicen over its territorial reign, they'll have my support. Substitution over appendages, inclusion in reference to overall esthetic. To diplomatically concede to your point, I would say a mildly shaped flaccid for marketing and public showcase (without need of censorship or the appearance of castration) plus the inclusion of a detailed flaccid piece for photo realism. Still no stiffy. For what purpose other than porno amusement is a stiffy appendage useful? I ask this within the context of the 1/6 craft. The 'craft' is all I've ever argue for. The current line, leave it as is. But for an artist-centric line, a non-detailed appendage ought to be included for artistic showcase that will minimize laughter that is an absolute killer of creativity. We seriously underestimate the negative powers of public unease and is reverberations... It's funny that we are splitting hairs over a line of figures that does not even exist. Hurray to our artistic imagination!

One Sixth Practical wrote:GubernatorFan, I've mosaic'd any possible naughty bits and re-uploaded the images. I hope these edits will suffice. Saving readers a click!

Yes you're probably right... Nothing about the pattern of Phicen's decisions indicates a willingness for any bold new shifts. Well... I've said my piece. If an emerging brand desires to challenge King Phicen over its territorial reign, they'll have my support. Substitution over appendages, inclusion in reference to overall esthetic. To diplomatically concede to your point, I would say a mildly shaped flaccid for marketing and public showcase (without need of censorship or the appearance of castration) plus the inclusion of a detailed flaccid piece for photo realism. Still no stiffy. For what purpose other than porno amusement is a stiffy appendage useful? I ask this within the context of the 1/6 craft. The 'craft' is all I've ever argue for. The current line, leave it as is. But for an artist-centric line, a non-detailed appendage aught to be included for esthetic accuracy that will minimize laughter which is an absolute killer of creativity. We seriously underestimate the negative powers of public unease and is reverberations... It's funny that we are splitting hairs over a line of figures that does not even exist. Hurray to our artistic imagination!

I don't insist you concede to me at all, diplomatically or otherwise, just pointing out what seem to me problems with your approach. I think you underestimate that a "mildly shaped flaccid [appendage]" is going to be pretty much as offensive as any at all to those who get upset at such things -- just like your mosaic'd images might still be NSFW and still need to be under a spoiler. You ask "For what purpose other than porno amusement is a stiffy appendage useful?" And you answer your own question (I think correctly) while asking it. The same goes for the female bodies. You and I might not need it, but someone else might. To each his/her own. There are things that are appropriate in public spaces (virtual or real) and things that are not. But I'm not going to advocate denying someone a fuller range of appreciation of a product by militating for the non-inclusion of variant appendages (which are, on top of all, elective) in private or in an appropriate non-private space (which this is not, lest someone gets any ideas). Moreover, laughter is certainly not always a killer of creativity, as so much creativity is aimed at inciting laughter. On the other hand, creating an additional child-friendly (or if you wish, prude friendly) abridged line of products (I imagine children might not need the full gamut of body types to play with) seems to make sense, while at the same time continuing what has been an apparently successful business model.

GubernatorFan, I'm just a dull stay at home hubby with a passion for the 1/6 craft. I dare not insult anyone's fun toys. To each his/her own!

Of laughter, yes, if laughter is the intent, it does not kill creativity... But as I repeat, the craft. It hinders the craft. I speak to the majority of custom artists, small to mid-size studios of In-Art, Asmus, Pop Toys, Star Ace, DAMtoys, etc. They produce serious gallery-worthy works and if they were to include erect appendages as Phicen/Jiaou, 1/6 art will suffer a fatal wound to its ascendancy. Goodbye to our collective vision.

One Sixth Practical, love all those samples you posted! I would definitely welcome an added "premium" line of releases with this level of realism. I would most likely get one of each regardless of genitalia being included or not, as long as the price doesn't rise by more than 50%.

I do think it would be smart business to produce seamless substitutes for the most common/popular Barbie (and Ken) dolls, improving on realism, but making sure the clothes still fit, matching the level of genital detail (or lack thereof) and maybe even providing an adapter for the Barbie heads. TBL could make it a separate line, like OSP suggested. Oh the possibilities!

One Sixth Practical wrote:Of laughter, yes, if laughter is the intent, it does not kill creativity... But as I repeat, the craft. It hinders the craft. I speak to the majority of custom artists, small to mid-size studios of In-Art, Asmus, Pop Toys, Star Ace, DAMtoys, etc. They produce serious gallery-worthy works and if they were to include erect appendages as Phicen/Jiaou, 1/6 art will suffer a fatal wound to its ascendancy. Goodbye to our collective vision.

None of the five companies you list produce seamless bodies that would qualify for what I think you mean by "the craft" where nudes are concerned. That TBLeague and Jiaou leave room for improvement in terms of realism, detail, and the number and kinds of options is agreed. But you need to be aware that where something has to be child appropriate, even "tasteful nudity" is inappropriate, so these flaccid limitations (all puns intended) would be insufficient to address the issue you are prioritizing. Moreover, as for female bodies, I very much doubt that many collectors obsessed with what we have euphemistically called "tactical tease" figures produced by several of the companies you listed would object to more explicit detail beneath the unrealistically skimpy clothing -- even if this would make little sense on open jointed bodies to me. World Box just produced some innovative female bodies, discussed elsewhere in this forum, and the body shapes are great and different from what we are used to. But they would certainly not make photogenic "tasteful nudes," whatever the actual level of realistic detail (I haven't received mine so I don't fully know), due to those overly obvious joints.

Diana wrote:I do think it would be smart business to produce seamless substitutes for the most common/popular Barbie (and Ken) dolls, improving on realism, but making sure the clothes still fit, matching the level of genital detail (or lack thereof) and maybe even providing an adapter for the Barbie heads. TBL could make it a separate line, like OSP suggested. Oh the possibilities!

I think you are exactly right, and if TBLeague wants to break into the child toy market, that would be the first thing they do. In fact, they have sorta done so already with their teenage body (bodies? I've lost track since the first one, since I didn't care for it). As for Ken, all they have to do is skip out on the offending appendages (as they did with the original release of M31). Still, while TBLeague's TPE-covered bodies are generally surprisingly hardy, I'm not sure they're quite childproof.

GubernatorFan I throw in the flag. I lack the stamina. We're splitting hairs over the exclusion of a rubber part for a hypothetical new product. While it's unfortunate that we got stuck on this topic like glue, I respect your vast knowledge base and I treasure your advice, always. I very much look forward to sparking a new topic of discussion in future. Though our tastes do differ, we share a common love and I appreciate you!

Diana, oh yes, I'll be buying lots too! A premium line would be a dream provided they keep it nice and affordable. Are you hearing us Phicen! Aside from a new series, I have my fingers crossed for them to model a regular male body after pre-beer-belly Jason Momoa like their young Schwarzenegger sculpt for M34/35. Like a young Arnold, his frame and musculature is rather unique and dynamic all on its own. I want that!

I'd be in for a Jason Momoa model, though maybe it's not different enough from the M36...

What I really want is an athletic slim male body. One that could be used for a long distance runner, a nerd, Spider-Man basically. One version in standard height and one that's a little shorter. Please and thank you.

Same goes for a female version actually. 

I suppose these are harder to do since in order to get them to look slim and wiry they would have to use less skin material, which in turn increases the chance of an elbow poking through etc.

Yeah -- one of the body types that tbleague seems allergic to doing is a SHORT athletic female body with SMALL bust. If only!

Oh yes, I want those too! medium/short athletic male and female. Regular builds with detail that will make Jiaou buyers wish they'd waited  
As for that burly man Mamoa (my wife's top crush), I'm just going to float this picture out into the universe... Toy gods, if you're listening...

One Sixth Practical wrote:GubernatorFan I throw in the flag. I lack the stamina. We're splitting hairs over the exclusion of a rubber part for a hypothetical new product. While it's unfortunate that we got stuck on this topic like glue, I respect your vast knowledge base and I treasure your advice, always. I very much look forward to sparking a new topic of discussion in future. Though our tastes do differ, we share a common love and I appreciate you!

Diana, oh yes, I'll be buying lots too! A premium line would be a dream provided they keep it nice and affordable. Are you hearing us Phicen! Aside from a new series, I have my fingers crossed for them to model a regular male body after pre-beer-belly Jason Momoa like their young Schwarzenegger sculpt for M34/35. Like a young Arnold, his frame and musculature is rather unique and dynamic all on its own. I want that!

I don't think we are splitting hairs at all -- these are more fundamentally different hypothetical takes on what an existing company's future production would be best to include. I think we agree on the need for more realistic and more variant bodies, and on the advisability of child-friendly options. We disagree on cutting back the level of realistic detail options on specific parts of potential future male and female bodies as a whole, because you think these should be limited to some standard of what is tasteful, and I'm certain that this would be insufficient to please prudes while enough to disappoint those who like to have as many options as possible. And it is not really a disagreement about taste, per se -- for all I know we have the same taste (not that we need to), but we have a difference of opinion as to what ought to be available for people that have other tastes or priorities than us. I certainly don't mean to be combative, and I most certainly don't have TBLeague's ear, but I think my position is more inclusive and, in theory, more practical for TBLeague. Of course, such a discussion would be pertinent to any company (not just TBLeague) that would produce such bodies. And I do agree that there are many more critical improvements that are worth discussing, in terms of "accessories" (I mean hands and feet) and joints.

Pre-beer belly Jason Momoa? Sure, but in the interest of realism, why not beer-belly Jason Momoa too?

Diana wrote:I'd be in for a Jason Momoa model, though maybe it's not different enough from the M36...

What I really want is an athletic slim male body. One that could be used for a long distance runner, a nerd, Spider-Man basically. One version in standard height and one that's a little shorter. Please and thank you.

Same goes for a female version actually. 

I suppose these are harder to do since in order to get them to look slim and wiry they would have to use less skin material, which in turn increases the chance of an elbow poking through etc.

M36 is the extra tall baskteball-player body.

I'm all for an athletic slim male body, perhaps in two heights. Speaking of which, I wish they fix the M33, making it a few mm taller in the legs (without stupid extenders) and a couple of mm shorter in the arms.

They absolutely should to do a couple more realistic, not too tall female bodies, with reasonable busts and without skimping on the biceps cut articulation. S24-25 and S26-27 were good steps in that direction, but they have gotten distracted doing anime bodies, and bodies that are once more a bit too tall for most women in sixth scale.

skywalkersaga wrote:Yeah -- one of the body types that tbleague seems allergic to doing is a SHORT athletic female body with SMALL bust. If only!

Amen!

One Sixth Practical wrote:Oh yes, I want those too! medium/short athletic male and female. Regular builds with detail that will make Jiaou buyers wish they'd waited  
As for that burly man Mamoa (my wife's top crush), I'm just going to float this picture out into the universe... Toy gods, if you're listening...

I hope you realize they intended their actual M34 and M35 bodies as basically meant to be young Arnie's (or did you mean even younger Arnie for a different look?). Not saying they nailed them, but that's what they advertised them as.

If I'm not mistaken, Momoa's is one of those of the slightly longer than usual torsos, and that would be neat to have in a sixth-scale seamless body. Another one of those, less jacked but certainly fit to perfection, would be Chris Hemsworth's.

I think the last thing we need is more muscle-bound dudes. I’d rather see something like this:

Actually, I agree, if it is about providing variety, the next TBLeague male body should not be super muscular. Of the bodies they could fix (M31, M33), one is a little along these lines. Perhaps that one (M31) should have a slimmer and perhaps shorter version, which would be similar to what you suggest, Mark.

GubernatorFan, yes that is an accurate take of our disagreement. Censorship being a subjective matter more often than not... 3D subtleties can tilt the scale either way, but I think we've delved into it about as far as we can go. Let us agree to disagree with gentleman's handshake.

Count me in on a slimmer average height M33 alternative! But I feel a Momoa type is sorely needed also. With M34 & M35 (modeled after a young Mr. Olympia phase Arnold) being virtually identical aside from muscle mass, a Momoa type with longer torso, narrower shoulders and less muscle mass would be a refreshing variation. That frame/build would also make an ideal fit for Chris Evans, Jackman and Hemsworth as noted by GubernatorFan. Quick, one of us learn Mandarin, befriend a Phicen insider. Sleep with em' if you have to. Whatever it takes people!

LOL, this thread just cost me a whole bunch time time surfing the web for the perfect seamless body references. This is why I don't get things done!!

I initially looked for ironman winners, then ended up with surfers: overall fit but not overly buff.

Posted to my social media. Self-explanatory. Hope it helps whomever it might help! I am no helpline employee. Ask me only if you've tried it:

As a follow-up to my 'how to color/tan' videos, here are tips to avoid weak results from shoe cream dye. Apply the minimum amount of cream that can cover the entire body and restrain from adding extra during task. This may seem counter intuitive, but it will lead to stronger results. Toward the end of an application, cream will dry and form into sticky granular flakes across the body and your latex gloves. Flakes are in fact better able to stain TPE than cream while it is moist. Press them into the body as much as possible before they fully dry. Work time between flake formation and disappearance is no more than 5 minutes so do not stop. For extra flakes, use what has fallen as well as dried cream stuck along the sides of your gloves. If too much cream is initially applied or extra is added, that added moisture content will lengthen your process. Your task is complete when the flakes no longer stick. Rinse body and gloves with dish soap then fully dry upon every application.

The 'overnight' method is one that may also better stain TPE. First, massage the cream onto the body with some pressured rubbing. Then and only then, coat the body with cream using fingertip or brush. Leave no gaps. Be warned, if you skip the massage, the resulting color may be patchy. Stand the body upright using forwardly extended arms as a crutch against a wall. Leave it to dry overnight then finally rinse. This method is only advisable for additional applications in the aim of deep coloration and not for a subtle tan etc. With subtle shades, patchiness can be an issue whereas with darker shades, added layers may correct it.

Hands colored with Tamiya Lacquer LP-59 mixed with a drop of black. Palms lightened with a dab of 'Ivory' from Tamiya Weathering Master H set sealed with a clear matte topcoat.

Wow, that looks fantastic. I'll keep the tips in mind for future experiments. Thanks as always for sharing your awesome results!

Beautifully done, summarized, and presented. Why the rubber tubing in the neck? I mean, it is a way of thickening the neck if need be, but I think it performs a different function in your process.

Sky and GubernatorFan, thank you very much

GubernatorFan, please elaborate on what you mean by "a different function".

You're welcome, OneSixthPractical! I'm always so fascinated by your process and results. ^.^

GF - the tutorial states the rubber tube is indeed for thickening (widening) the neck. I'm guessing this was done in order to make the tbleague neck work with whatever Michonne headsculpt was being used.

Sky that's it. I widened the neck to fit the perceived neckline of Dani/Michonne. I'm sure neck-widening or thickening is far less of a necessity for the average female bod, but since I neglected to mention how I did it for the Classic Hulk (M35) or Terry Crews (M34) posting, I took the opportunity on the S23B. There is no functional element to it besides the visual. Of my two dozen Phicen, I've thickened the neck of virtually all of them at this point. Wrist and ankle gaps may be covered with shoes, fabric and trinkets, but the neck is more often than not neglected. Rubber tube is the easiest method I know to get rid of those unsightly gaps. Personally, if a sculpt doesn't fit upon neck adjustment, I shave away resin/PVC from the inner sculpt with my trusty Dremel or rounded-blade wood carving tool until it does. We needn't sacrifice our ideal body match or mod over a tiny bit of plastic. I say I say, shave that inner sculpt! We may make a mess of it, but it's an area no one can see

Excellent result, and another awesome tutorial. Thanks so much for doing this.