Painting seamless bodies (NSFW?)

Regarding the colour transfer issue, fingers crossed I seem to have sorted it -- I think it was simply down to not washing one of the areas enough... I had overlooked certain spots. Hopefully it will be ok now. 

And going back to the subject of colouring Jiaou doll bodies, I was recently reading a thread over on the old site, and someone mentioned the fact that washing Jiaou bodies in soap can dry them out and cause peeling and cracking. I'm now wondering if that might be a part of the problem I encountered with my earlier attempts to colour one. Is it even possible to adequately 'wash' the oil pastel off a body without soap?

Update: the method described here is in fact reversible, see Post 174 below. For a better alternative, see Post 192 below.

Seems like several of us are experimenting with applying color -- for various purposes and by various means -- to seamless bodies. I've come up with a little breakthrough, and wrote it up and illustrated it below. Ever since I got the ADD Toys War Wolves "muscle version," I couldn't fail but be impressed with what they did paint-wise, and how it leapt ahead of TBLeague and Jiaou in that respect (less so when it comes to sculpting -- nipples should be 3D! -- especially articulation -- nothing seems to beat a real stainless steel skeleton so far). Now why can't one company get everything right?

Anyway, I sought a way to draw body hair on a TBLeague silicone-covered steel-skeletoned (is that a word?) body. Short of some factory setup with breathers and masks and silicone spray pigments and other futuristic technology (I don't actually know how ADD Toys pulled it off), that was not going to happen. Oil pastel seems to be the easiest approach to coloring the silicone covering of TBLeague bodies (though see now Gooboo's excellent write up of the dyeing alternative), but there is no way oil pastel could produce lines that are sufficiently thin, and the methods used in conventional paintings to produce such lines (by scraping off the excess material) would hardly be applicable here.

So I looked for an oil-based ink pen with a tip small enough to do the job. The best I could find was a Pilot Drawing Pen with Oil-Based Ink, tip size 005 (Pilot M-20DRN05-B, 200, is the name/number that appears above the bar code on the pen; the rest is in Japanese). These come in very limited color (black, maybe also blue and red -- at least the other sizes do), so I went for black.

For the experiment, I took one of my M30 bodies (TBLeague's first go at a seamless male body, turned out too pale/greyish and short, some say too cartoonish), gave it a gentle wash to remove the protective powder, colored the nipples with oil pastels to get that part out of the way, and proceeded with hand drawing the little hairs. On a hard smooth surface the line is very fine, though not quite as fine as the painted hairs on the ADD Toys muscle body; on the silicone cover the line is less fine and harder to draw, but still better than any of the alternatives I could think of. Hand drawing body hair can get tedious real fast, but I am stubborn for a reason; still, more patience and care might have produced a somewhat better result. But ultimately, this is for experimental purposes.

As expected, the oil-based ink was able to bond with the silicone surface once that had been cleared of protective powder. It did not come off when gently washed off and patted dry. It dulled just a little bit when I re-applied protective powder over it (and that is actually a good thing, otherwise it was a bit shiny and sharp; besides, the silicone surface should be protected). It did not transfer on paper towels or clothing. A drop of water left on top of it had no effect; but rubbing the water in a bit led to a little bit of smudging (though not washing off or color transfer). Update: for more on this, see Post 174 below.

Regardless of my success or failure in drawing the body hair (I may have gotten carried away) in a remotely realistic manner or the suitability of this tip for that purpose (I don't think we can find a finer one), the permanent coloring goal seems to be successfully attained. A number of you have expressed concern about finding a way to draw tattoos on these bodies, and this might work even better for those than it does for body hair (you might want to get both this finest tip and one of the slightly less fine ones to cover more ground).













What do you think?

Update: the method described here is in fact reversible, see Post 174 below.

Interesting technique. I think you’re right about going a little overboard Now you need a Robin Williams sculpt — that guy was practically a primate. A little less and I think it would look really good — it’s too bad the pen doesn’t come in brown, as that might make it a bit less stark. Really good first attempt.

Stryker2011 wrote:Interesting technique. I think you’re right about going a little overboard Now you need a Robin Williams sculpt — that guy was practically a primate. A little less and I think it would look really good — it’s too bad the pen doesn’t come in brown, as that might make it a bit less stark. Really good first attempt.

Fair enough, and thanks. The reason I kept going was, in part, because of how stark it was (even though I knew the protective powder would soften it a little bit) -- having significantly less coverage of body hair that was otherwise this stark would have made it look too "manscaped," and that was not an effect I wanted to end up with. While I own/wear a hairy body myself, I have little or no experience recreating the look, so I did some online research (which exposed me to some pretty questionable content on occasion); in some cases it is funny what passes for hairy these days, but there were plenty of photos with people much hairier than this. Robin Williams would have needed brown or brick red ink and a different body type, but you have a point. For your purposes, I think the potential for tattoos is pretty great.

Haha, he reminds me of some hairy Persian blokes I used to know.  

But seriously, this is a really cool discovery! I actually had thought about the potential of oil based pens myself a while ago, but then couldn't track any down and promptly forgot about it. I'm glad you managed to find some. Does it really only come in black? If so, frustrating.  Even so, it's still a really promising find for tattoo purposes, as you say!

skywalkersaga wrote:Haha, he reminds me of some of hairy Persian blokes I used to know.  

But seriously, this is a really cool discovery! I actually had thought about the potential of oil based pens myself a while ago, but then couldn't track any down and promptly forgot about it. I'm glad you managed to find some. Does it really only come in black? If so, frustrating.  Even so, it's still a really promising find for tattoo purposes, as you say!

At the store from which I ordered, the oil-based version appears to come only in black.

https://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Drawing-Pen-Oil-Based-Ink-005-Black/pd/11663/related?&f=0b5772b744ab187585e452fc4d268ecc

GubernatorFan wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:Haha, he reminds me of some of hairy Persian blokes I used to know.  

But seriously, this is a really cool discovery! I actually had thought about the potential of oil based pens myself a while ago, but then couldn't track any down and promptly forgot about it. I'm glad you managed to find some. Does it really only come in black? If so, frustrating.  Even so, it's still a really promising find for tattoo purposes, as you say!

At the store from which I ordered, the oil-based version appears to come only in black.

https://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Drawing-Pen-Oil-Based-Ink-005-Black/pd/11663/related?&f=0b5772b744ab187585e452fc4d268ecc

Thanks for the link, will definitely keep these in mind.

skywalkersaga wrote:Thanks for the link, will definitely keep these in mind.

You're very welcome. Just discovered there are 003 tip drawing pens; that would be even finer, however, I cannot verify whether the ink would work yet, as they don't appear to use oil-based ink.

Ah ok. Well, hope you find as fine tips as possible for your tbleague 'hair-ing'.  

Just curious -- do you know if 'paint pens' work in a similar way to the pens you've just used? I mean the sort of oil-based marker pens that people use to draw designs on glass, for instance. ETA: I'm guessing they don't stick very well and would probably wash off, but just wondered for obvious reasons! ;P

skywalkersaga wrote:Ah ok. Well, hope you find as fine tips as possible for your tbleague 'hair-ing'.  

Just curious -- do you know if 'paint pens' work in a similar way to the pens you've just used? I mean the sort of oil-based marker pens that people use to draw designs on glass, for instance. ETA: I'm guessing they don't stick very well and would probably wash off, but just wondered for obvious reasons! ;P

I mean to investigate that too. Fine tips in those are not on the same scale of fine, but I did get some (by iBayam and by Zeyar, which also makes acrylic paint markers). Just haven't tested them yet. I can tell you oil-based color pencils don't work well for such purposes.

Hah, nice one, good to know there is a 'precise' method like this.

Btw, attacked a Jiaou dude's covered leg with the tattoo machine just for fun, while it did not work like a real tattoo, somehow this ink sticks to the body. But still some experimenting to do there.

And a happy little accident: I outlined the craft paper wings for Fyyit with a graphite pencil to cut them out. When trying on the wings, the line of the pencil seems to have transferred onto her back permanently.
Have not reproduced that yet, as I am out of testing bodies. But maybe someone would like to experiment further if it is possible to draw fine pencil tattoos on the paper and transfer them to the skin.

Update and response to Ovy

The oil-based ink method is not quite as irreversible as I thought. As I mentioned, if you rub some water onto it, it can smudge a little bit. Well, if you rub it just a little more vigorously with (for example) a wet q-tip, you can pretty much completely remove the ink. This is both good news and bad -- the good news is that it is reversible, in case you make a mistake or change your mind; the bad news likewise, in case you wanted to be certain that it is stuck there forever. But if you are not going to wet and rub the figure (we're still talking TBLeague silicone body here), the oil-based ink seems like a reasonably stable option for tattoos and body hair or whatever.

Ovy, I don't quite follow what you mean about a tattoo machine, but I'm sure soon enough you will show us. I did try to replicate your pencil graphite discovery, and it works just like you say. I did a quick little X on a bit of paper, making sure to make it thick and full, then just rubbed it a bit onto the silicone surface, and sure enough it left an offprint. Then I tried to remove it with a wet q-tip. It gradually turned into a smudge but eventually came off completely. It performed the same way both before and after removing the protective powder. Looks like another reversible approach.

Ovy wrote:Hah, nice one, good to know there is a 'precise' method like this.

Btw, attacked a Jiaou dude's covered leg with the tattoo machine just for fun, while it did not work like a real tattoo, somehow this ink sticks to the body. But still some experimenting to do there.

And a happy little accident: I outlined the craft paper wings for Fyyit with a graphite pencil to cut them out. When trying on the wings, the line of the pencil seems to have transferred onto her back permanently.
Have not reproduced that yet, as I am out of testing bodies. But maybe someone would like to experiment further if it is possible to draw fine pencil tattoos on the paper and transfer them to the skin.

Thanks for the update, GF. It seems like very few things are truly ‘permanent’ on the silicone, so it’s not surprising. But it’s still an interesting technique that could be useful for specific needs and perhaps be fine in smaller areas (with less chance of constant handling and getting rubbed or smudged). Such as if someone wanted to add just a bit of chest hair on a figure with an open-necked shirt, or tattoos on a bare arm or something.

I appreciate everyone performing these experiments to test the various materials. Sometimes we make breakthroughs, and sometimes it’s a ‘false alarm’ — I was so excited at first when I thought I’d managed to colour the body with the white oil pastel, but then sadly realized it was all washing off. But it’s helpful to do that process of elimination, as otherwise we might always be wondering about it.

Update on painting/drawing on TBLeague silicone body surface with oil-based ink.

Oil-based ink seemed like the natural candidate for drawing small details (like tattoos or body hair) on this surface, and I reported on my experiments in an earlier post (post 162 in this thread). As I noticed and noted, it seemed like a fairly stable solution, but it is possible to smudge the lines if you rubbed them with something wet. Continued experimentation confirms this. In fact, with enough effort, that solution can now be classified as reversible rather than permanent.

If you do not handle and rub the body with wet fingers or tools you will probably have stable and clear lines. But if you do, you will get some smudging. The silver lining is that this means that if you make a mistake in the painting/drawing or simply change your mind and want to remove it, you can. Getting the body wet and rubbing it down on purpose with a modicum of effort produced much more smudging, eventually an artsy wash effect that I wish I had photographed, and finally (after some recourse to soap, not just water), the oil-based ink washed off, leaving almost no trace. I say almost, because there are still some faint variations in coloring, in effect reminiscent of slight pitting or hairing on the body. The process also removed the oil-pastel coloring on the nipples (I don't know whether it would have the same effect on larger surfaces painted with that medium: this instance affected very small areas, which were also not given quite as thorough a treatment as when one paints the entire body surface with oil pastel).

Here are a couple of shots of the body (the same one featured in post 162) after removing all the oil-based ink hairs. While I'm somewhat disappointed by the reversibility of the oil-based ink method, it resulted in a more nuanced (and natural) appearance (remember M30 bodies were a bit greyish in skin tone to begin with) and allowed me to continue experimenting on the same body with other options (more on that presently).

Interesting effect -- looks almost like he's got a five o'clock shadow where his body hair used to be. ;D 

Curious to see what you do with it next...

That’s actually not a bad effect. It gives the impression of hairiness without being over-the-top.

I think it looks a lot like skin pigmentation/freckles, great discovery.

Maybe for your next novel.

Lmao, Ovy !

skywalkersaga wrote:Interesting effect -- looks almost like he's got a five o'clock shadow where his body hair used to be. ;D Curious to see what you do with it next...

Yes, I thought so too -- faint body hair and color variation, just like real skin. Not as fine as what ADD Toys managed on their muscle war wolf, but still...

Stryker2011 wrote:That’s actually not a bad effect. It gives the impression of hairiness without being over-the-top.

Agreed. Shall we call it light fuzz?

Ovy wrote:I think it looks a lot like skin pigmentation/freckles, great discovery.

Maybe for your next novel.

I thought so too, although the process might be a bit laborious. As for the photo, the poor guy... is this sun damage?

I agree with everything that's been said and will add:
This could serve as a nice henna tattoo effect!

Hey guys, new collector here, I bought a figure that came with everything except the body, the recommended ones were pale skin Phicen/TBLeague, but I don't live in the US so these type of things are a little expensive, I found a Jiaou at a decent price on Ebay, it arrived yesterday but as you can see I f up, their pale skin is soooo white compared to the headsculpt.



I wanna fix this by painting the body because I can't spend money on a proper Phicen/TBLeague right now, besides you know how things are going in China atm, I can't return it either and ask for a different skin color. So if I mess this one up then I guess I'd have to buy a proper one later but obviously that's not the idea...

So my question is would you guys recommend that Staedtler paint method for this one?? Again it's a Jiaou, I really wanna be extra careful, I've never painted figures before. Any help would be appreciated!

Hello, and welcome, TheFlyingRaccoon!

First of all, so sorry for your disappointment —skintone matching can be a gamble in this hobby , so I can understand your frustration. And Jiaou skintones are often marked in a confusing way, depending where you purchase from, so don’t feel too bad about it.

Now, regarding the oil pastel colouring method... I feel I must caution you against using this on your Jiaou body. While GubernatorFan has used it with some success on a couple Jiaou’s before, I personally had a bad experience with my attempt, and the Jiaou body ended up getting scratched up by the pastel stick. The problem is that the TPE material that they are made of is basically the same consistency as styrofoam, and is fairly delicate , and doesn’t hold up well being washed with soap, either. In comparison, the silicone that the tbleague bodies are made of is much more robust and holds up much better with this method. Of course, by all means, feel free to try it out, but I just wanted to mention that I’d had a negative experience when I attempted to colour a Jiaou body with the oil pastel method.

Where are you located, out of curiosity? Just wondering if you could maybe try to sell the too-pale Jiaou body on ebay and recoup some of your funds that way. I’d recommend doing that if you can, and then saving up for either a tbleague or a different Jiaou body that matches the head you want to use better. : )

If you are worried about sellers to use , GianToy are very good and ship quickly to the U.K. (that’s where I’m located). They are back open now, and I have already received my most recent order from them, if that helps at all. : )

Welcome aboard Flying Raccoon! (rocket is that you???)

Sorry my knowledge is very limited on this topic, I suggest you wait for an answer of one of the pro league body painters here as phicen and jiaou dolls bodies are not made of the exact same material...

In the meantime, since your goal is to darken the whole body skintone, you might find this other topic interesting as well

dyeing phicen bodies

Once again it applies to phicen bodies, so may be wait before going adventurous on your jiaoudoll body(btw if you plan on changing the body, I think the "wheat" color from jiaou or the "suntan" from phicen would match better seeing the headsculpt)

Again, welcome aboard!

skywalkersaga wrote:Hello, and welcome, TheFlyingRaccoon!

First of all, so sorry for your disappointment —skintone matching can be a gamble in this hobby , so I can understand your frustration. And Jiaou skintones are often marked in a confusing way, depending where you purchase from, so don’t feel too bad about it.

Now, regarding the oil pastel colouring method... I feel I must caution you against using this on your Jisou body. While GubernatorFan has used it with some success on a couple Jiaou’s before, I personally had a bad experience with my attempt, and the Jiaou body ended up getting scratched up by the pastel stick. The problem is that the TPE that they are made of is basically the same consistency as styrofoam, and is fairly delicate material , and doesn’t hold up well being washed with soap, either. In comparison, the food grade silicone that the tbleague bodies are made of is much more robust and holds up much better with this method. Of course, by all means, feel free to try it out, but I just wanted to mention that I’d had a negative experience when I attempted to colour a Jiaou body with the oil pastel method.

Where are you located, out of curiosity? Just wondering if you could maybe try to sell the too-pale Jiaou body on ebay and recoup some of your funds that way. I’d recommend doing that if you can, and then saving up for either a tbleague or a different Jiaou body that matches the head you want to use better. : )

If you are worried about sellers to use , GianToy are very good and ship quickly to the U.K. (that’s where I’m located). They are back open now, and I have already received my most recent order from them, if that helps at all. : )

Ha, here come the professionals!

Ah, looks like we cross-posted — Blackpool also gives good advice.

Hey, thanks for the warm welcome you two!  

skywalkersaga wrote:
Now, regarding the oil pastel colouring method... I feel I must caution you against using this on your Jiaou body. While GubernatorFan has used it with some success on a couple Jiaou’s before, I personally had a bad experience with my attempt, and the Jiaou body ended up getting scratched up by the pastel stick. The problem is that the TPE material that they are made of is basically the same consistency as styrofoam, and is fairly delicate , and doesn’t hold up well being washed with soap, either. In comparison, the food grade silicone that the tbleague bodies are made of is much more robust and holds up much better with this method. Of course, by all means, feel free to try it out, but I just wanted to mention that I’d had a negative experience when I attempted to colour a Jiaou body with the oil pastel method.

I see... personally I am willing to try, perhaps by next week I'll scout around for the oil pastel. I'm thinking I could start testing it on the body around an area covered by clothes, see how it turns out and go from there if it works

skywalkersaga wrote:Where are you located, out of curiosity? Just wondering if you could maybe try to sell the too-pale Jiaou body on ebay and recoup some of your funds that way. I’d recommend doing that if you can, and then saving up for either a tbleague or a different Jiaou body that matches the head you want to use better. : )

I'm in South America, packages usually take a while to get here (I ordered the body early January but it probably took longer because of all the virus stuff), I'm sure there's more collectors around here but if I had to buy another body, I was planning to leave the Jiaou for reference and posing. I like to draw and work with 3D programs so these seamless bodies are very useful for stuff like that. But I may consider reselling it too if I get the chance.

blackpool wrote:
In the meantime, since your goal is to darken the whole body skintone, you might find this other topic interesting as well

dyeing phicen bodies

Once again it applies to phicen bodies, so may be wait before going adventurous on your jiaoudoll body(btw if you plan on changing the body, I think the "wheat" color from jiaou or the "suntan" from phicen would match better seeing the headsculpt)

I did check that thread out too, that's an interesting method but I find that one a little scarier, not gonna lie hahaha.
If I order another body I'll make sure it's Phicen/TBLeague, the Jiaou hand pegs are a little big for the sculpted gloved hands the original figure came with and I find the legs too long. I definitely feel dumb for buying this body but I guess it's just a rookie mistake : P

I'll post results if I start working on it, again thank you guys! Nice to be here

Welcome aboard, FlyingRaccoon. Unfortunately, you just discovered the reality of this hobby much faster, but probably for the better, than many. Look around the forum, there are many experienced collectors/kitbashers here, and we are always willing to answer any questions. We all had to start somewhere, and often we learned from mistakes more than anything. This hobby gets expensive fast when going by trial and error, but that’s often the best way to truly learn. That being said, don’t be afraid to ask questions, someone may have the answer before you consider trying/purchasing something.

Oh goodness, don't feel dumb, FlyingRaccoon! Seamless bodies can be a bit confusing thing to get into at first. And you don't even want to know how many crappy plastic jointed bodies I purchased prior to actually taking the plunge and getting a tbleague, lol. So you are already ahead of the game.

Totally understandable that you'd want to keep the body in this instance. And as Stryker says, it's certainly always good to experiment, please don't let me put you off. Just would have felt bad if I hadn't at least mentioned the potential for damage to the Jiaou bodies. If you are careful with it, you might have more success than I did. Perhaps if you just make sure to not wash it with harsh dish soap, and instead just gently rinse and/or mist it with water, this might help, as I believe the soap dries out the TPE and makes it more fragile and easily scratched.

Good luck with whatever method you end up trying! : )

Thank you, I gave it a fair amount of thought and decided I'm just gonna buy a Phicen/TBLeague figure later, I'll list the Jiaou on a local website along with a bunch of stuff and hopefully get some money back

Once again I appreciate the responses! If I have questions I'll be sure to ask, this is a lovely community and I look forward to seeing more stuff here!