A CROWN IS BORN../ The Hobbit Dwarves etc.. WIP's & Finished Builds Part 2

Nice grab on the purse. That looks like it work great.

That mail is perfect. Nice score.

Ahhh, I somehow skipped the photos of your custom Mail! Those legs are incredible!

USING A METAL TRAY (VHS/DVD PLAYER LID I THINK) TOUCHING THE HEATER DRIES THE PARTS FASTER AND FREES UP MY WORK TRAYS

LOL I do the same but with my PS4! It’s great for drying out glued hair wefts and anything papery!

Lynkhart wrote:Ahhhh, that’s going to be fantastic! I always keep my eyes peeled for bags like that whenever I’m at a charity shop but alas, I’ve never been so lucky. I’ve used the other side of a similar kind of metal bag for maille on my fantasy figures. It isn’t actually chain maille, but it gives you the gist of it.

Aeryn by Christine Sutcliffe, on Flickr

I know the metal square links very well! I have loads of the stuff and have used it for quite a few years, useful as you can use both sides for very different looks! I first used it on my 1970's BSG Cylons, then my Gory Gladiators series inspired by 'Spartacus Blood And Sand' and more recently on my Wraiths and Sauron from 'The Hobbit' movies.
Sorry about the quality I'm still half asleep!!

skywalkersaga wrote:That chainmail looks ideal! Lucky find for you!

Luck and a lot of searching! lol.

GubernatorFan wrote:Your half-mechanized, quarter-crazed Maul looks absolutely glorious, and perfectly rendered and painted. With acrylic on hard plastic, of course one has to watch out for paint scraping/rubbing off. Is Hasbro Maul about to run over baby Anakin with the Bloodfin? Actually, I just replied to your comments in the Maul thread and linked a couple of postings made with those figures that might make you mildly amused.

The (chain)mail purse looks great and I think it will suit your needs perfectly. It is not quite sixth scale (more like third or fourth scale?) but still very good and probably preferable to other available real metal options. Plus, as you pointed out, uruk-hai are bigger dudes. Are there uruk-hai females? Anyway. Just make sure you orient the links correctly -- either to the source or to historical usage, or shazzdan will call you out on it.

Cheers GTF! I still love that old build even if he gets his foot shot off occasionally due to being a little too close to the line of fire in my air gun range!!
Don't worry I know all about mail direction for defensive effectiveness as I did a bit of steel on steel Viking re-enactment back in the day!

Stryker2011 wrote:Nice grab on the purse. That looks like it work great.

Cheers Stryker!

shazzdan wrote:That mail is perfect. Nice score.

Thanks shazzdan! So smaller rings than you expected too then?

Lynkhart wrote:Ahhh, I somehow skipped the photos of your custom Mail! Those legs are incredible!

USING A METAL TRAY (VHS/DVD PLAYER LID I THINK) TOUCHING THE HEATER DRIES THE PARTS FASTER AND FREES UP MY WORK TRAYS

LOL I do the same but with my PS4! It’s great for drying out glued hair wefts and anything papery!

Which legs? I'm confused, do you mean the armour plate I'm making for his shins?
EDIT: Oh wait you mean my custom Maul don't you? LOL, thank you Lynkhart!

Great minds think alike when it comes to drying our parts quickly it seems!

Going to bathe the links in vinegar and baking soda mixed with water as the Coke trick doesn't work in Europe since we don't like drinking acid apparently!

shovelchop81 wrote:Thanks shazzdan! So smaller rings than you expected too then?

Yep. They are still too large for proper 1:6 scale but good enough for these kinds of projects. The end result should look pretty neat.

Going to bathe the links in vinegar and baking soda mixed with water as the Coke trick doesn't work in Europe since we don't like drinking acid apparently!

Vinegar and baking soda will clean the links, which will make them bright and shiny. If you want to darken the links then try vinegar and salt.

shazzdan wrote:

shovelchop81 wrote:Thanks shazzdan! So smaller rings than you expected too then?

Yep. They are still too large for proper 1:6 scale but good enough for these kinds of projects. The end result should look pretty neat.

Going to bathe the links in vinegar and baking soda mixed with water as the Coke trick doesn't work in Europe since we don't like drinking acid apparently!

Vinegar and baking soda will clean the links but probably won't darken them. Vinegar and salt would have a better chance of darkening them.

Great info thanks! Especially as I want them darker, don't have any baking soda but have loads of salt! LOL
I remember as a kid cleaning old brass and bronze stuff I dug up in Greece in our gardens (we moved around a lot) with lemon and salt, great for getting into any cuts on your hands!

Nice glimpses of your older builds. Love the 70s feel of the BSG stuff. Glad you have your plan of action for the mail links worked out. I would have thought salt would be detrimental to the metal, but I suppose when used judiciously...

It is no longer sodium chloride when it is added to vinegar. The acetic acid of the vinegar reacts with the sodium chloride to produce sodium acetate and hydrochloric acid. The hydrochloric acid should help to darken the links but you don't want to leave the metal in for too long.

GubernatorFan wrote:Nice glimpses of your older builds. Love the 70s feel of the BSG stuff. Glad you have your plan of action for the mail links worked out. I would have thought salt would be detrimental to the metal, but I suppose when used judiciously...

In my experience the salt acts as an abrasive and the vinegar as a mild acid, not too sure about the actual chemistry involved producing hydrochloric acid as in Europe we mix salt and vinegar on food all the time

shazzdan wrote:It is no longer sodium chloride when it is added to vinegar. The acetic acid of the vinegar reacts with the sodium chloride to produce sodium acetate and hydrochloric acid. The hydrochloric acid should help to darken the links but you don't want to leave the metal in for too long.

It cleaned it well but didn't darken it so I think like I said in the PM no HCI without heat or gas but my chemistry is really rusty!!!

Okay thanks to shazzdan I now have much better looking mail! No more yellow and looks closer to steel than before with no need for paint. I've also been busy painting the body with all sorts of flesh tones and ink washes until I've ended up with a look I like which is kind of a redwood colour with an almost walnut like marbling look to it, just needs clear coat now. I've removed the mail from the bag's frame and liner, took a while but got faster when I realised it was attached with a coiled wire not links but I still had to use baby wire cutters at every hole and jiggle the wire loose; then I had to split both sides using the doubled up rings there as a guide and snipping a link at a time to avoid wasting more links than necessary. I need to make a brown real leather tunic to go under the mail or it will just scratch off all the body paint.









NICE CHAIN FOR A GHOST RIDER FIGURE!







CLOSE UP OF THE DOUBLE LINKED SIDES

Awesome, I think it makes sense for the Uruks to have larger rings, I mean look at these clawed hands, how are they supposed to

When I had my 'maybe try to make 1/6 scale maile or just cover everything in plate and padding' phase I stumbled upon butcher gloves, but never bought one. The rings were probably too large too.

The (chain)mail looks great, I'm glad you were able to detach it so cleanly and save the links. Your repainted body (I guess you expect the ab crunch to scrape off paint so are not bothering painting that section -- which will remain invisible anyway) and head look excellent. I hope you don't glue the helmet to the head, as it will be worth taking off and seeing from time to time (or at least to have the potential to do so). Great progress.

Ovy wrote:Awesome, I think it makes sense for the Uruks to have larger rings, I mean look at these clawed hands, how are they supposed to

When I had my 'maybe try to make 1/6 scale maile or just cover everything in plate and padding' phase I stumbled upon butcher gloves, but never bought one. The rings were probably too large too.

Yeah, I don't know who does all his armour up, must never take it off! As for butchers gloves, proper ones are really expensive and cheaper ones are more of a Kevlar mesh so no good as chain mail for us unfortunately that I've seen anyway.

GubernatorFan wrote:The (chain)mail looks great, I'm glad you were able to detach it so cleanly and save the links. Your repainted body (I guess you expect the ab crunch to scrape off paint so are not bothering painting that section -- which will remain invisible anyway) and head look excellent. I hope you don't glue the helmet to the head, as it will be worth taking off and seeing from time to time (or at least to have the potential to do so). Great progress.

I might glue it on just to annoy you! Kidding of course, still thinking about adding real hair tied into a ponytail like the 1/12 figure I have.

Made a rough tunic/jerkin out of leather and sewed it together using a hole punch and wax cord. I've been carefully dividing the mail up to get as much use as possible as this is a big figure! I'm attaching it at the edges with super glue, seems to work very well, is fast and easy too. It's still a jigsaw puzzle with more leather mods and parts needed as well.









USED SHARPIES TO MARK WHERE THE MAIL NEEDED TO BE CUT

The links have simple butted joins so you can open them up using pliers. All of those loose links can be reused to join the sleeves to the torso and to zip up the side. They are no different to the jump rings used in jewelry.

You have the weave running the wrong way. In real armour this orientation pulls the weave open and makes it easier for weapons to punch through. On a figure, it prevents the weave from "stretching" horizontally, which limits its range of movement. In addition, it throws out the aesthetics because it doesn't look like historical armour. All of the Coomodel figures that use proper mail armour have this problem.

Rotate it 90 degrees so it hangs like the following pics. This orientation gives horizontal "stretch" to the weave so it is easier to fit on a figure and allows for a greater range of poses. In real armour, this orientation (in addition to giving better movement) allows the lnks close up when hit so they bind around the weapon point.






Your earlier photos had it hanging the right way.

Really talking shape now. All this tedious work is paying off.

shazzdan wrote:The links have simple butted joins so you can open them up using pliers. All of those loose links can be reused to join the sleeves to the torso and to zip up the side. They are no different to the jump rings used in jewelry.

You have the weave running the wrong way. In real armour this orientation pulls the weave open and makes it easier for weapons to punch through. On a figure, it prevents the weave from "stretching" horizontally, which limits its range of movement.

Rotate it 90 degrees so it hangs like the following pics. This orientation gives horizontal "stretch" to the weave so it is easier to fit on a figure and allows for a greater range of poses. In real armour, this orientation (in addition to giving better movement) allows the links close up when hit so they bind around the weapon point.
Your earlier photos had it hanging the right way.

I understand and appreciate all that, I knew the decisions I was/am making don't fit with a historical reproduction and why they don't (having done steel on steel re-enactment myself many years ago) but as you can see I have a limited amount of mail to work with on a very large figure that isn't very articulated to begin with. The leather jerkin will restrict articulation far more than the mail ever would no matter the direction it is hung; as it happens the direction of the mail was an accident on my part as working at night with a desk lamp I got my weave direction mixed up when I marked out the pattern to cut. This is also his back which feels like a waste of mail as it is, firstly the Uruk-Hai were known for not wearing armour on their backs as a symbol of bravado and discourage them from fleeing any battles, also this guy is going to be posed on a top shelf facing out so I doubt I'll ever see his back once he's up there!
As for rebutting the rings back together, that's not going to happen mate, I gave up with my 5mm rings, there's no way I'm going to do it with 3mm rings! Some things just need a workaround which is what I'm good at, not following instructions.

GubernatorFan wrote:Really talking shape now. All this tedious work is paying off.

Tell me about it wish I'd never decided to use mail, it's just been a pain in the arse....

Completely understand. You have to work with what you have. It is looking pretty good.

Now we all understand why figures with proper miniature mail armour cost so much. Major pain in the arse. Whiting and Davis invented a machine to make sheets of mail for their purses, which kept prices down. I can't find a video of the W&D machine but here is an article with some photos.
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/2012/06/29/chain-gang/


This is a video of the machine used by the Ring Lord.

shazzdan wrote:Completely understand. You have to work with what you have. It is looking pretty good.

Now we all understand why figures with proper miniature mail armour cost so much. Major pain in the arse. Whiting and Davis invented a machine to make sheets of mail for their purses, which kept prices down. I can't find a video of the W&D machine but here is an article with some photos.
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/2012/06/29/chain-gang/


This is a video of the machine used by the Ring Lord.

Fascinating machine!! Right up my street! I love how it even looks like something I'd come up with held together with perforated L brackets!
And boy would working at the W&D Boston factory be my vision of hell right now, reminds me way too much of the work done by those poor bastards in sweat shops although probably more challenging and possibly even more diverse than what a mate of mine did during his school holidays....putting lids on a conveyor belt of vinegar bottles in a factory! UGH...
Well cheers for understanding that I'm not trying to make an historical museum piece and as usual I'm trying to use as much of what I have already to do it, which is often salvaged from my street/neighbours but that's part of the challenge and fun for me.

Got the Vader, Anubis and Hobbit bodies in the post yesterday, the muscle body is great I can't believe the articulation that thing can do and hold! I just pray it doesn't dry out and crack like the HT Martian bodies did on me before I discovered silicone oil. It's funny I just realised that it has been years since I've actually used a 'regular' body for a build! Not since the last Wraith from The Hobbit; the WWK I just did had a very tall body closer to Vader's than a regular body.
Done more mail snipping and reorienting, it's not random and will make sense with all the armour done and more leather bits made.









HAD TO CUT AND NARROW THE LEATHER SLEAVES WHICH NECESSITATED REMOVING SOME MAIL TO BE USED ELSEWHERE WHICH WAS A BONUS AS THE PAULDRONS WILL COVER THE GAPS IN THE MAIL

I am mesmerized by the gif. So cool. And so useful for information when building your own. Glad the bodies got to you safely, doesn't seem like a super long time. With TBLeague bodies, I don't know about oiling them, but keeping them reasonably well-powdered (whether corn starch, baby powder, or cosmetic silicon powder) seems key. And probably not to leave them in exceedingly hot or cold or damp conditions over-flexed for too long.

Pretty cool. Love the walking gifs — pretty awesome.

Haha nice, it's Urknold Schwaarzenegger :p

GubernatorFan wrote:I am mesmerized by the gif. So cool. And so useful for information when building your own. Glad the bodies got to you safely, doesn't seem like a super long time. With TBLeague bodies, I don't know about oiling them, but keeping them reasonably well-powdered (whether corn starch, baby powder, or cosmetic silicon powder) seems key. And probably not to leave them in exceedingly hot or cold or damp conditions over-flexed for too long.

Love the GIF's too! You must explain how the powers are meant to work mate please, cheers!

Stryker2011 wrote:Pretty cool. Love the walking gifs — pretty awesome.

Yeah pretty awesome, glad I found them, no idea who created them or I'd give them the credit they deserve.

Ovy wrote:Haha nice, it's Urknold Schwaarzenegger :p

I was thinking Uruk-Hulk!

It's fantastic to see how it shaped up. That mail purse seems like a godsent. Can't wait to see the finished ork guy!

If you are planning to colour the Tbleague body in any way, one of the better things to use is oil pastel. There's a whole thread on it here: https://onesixthfigures.forumotion.com/t260-painting-seamless-bodies-nsfw?highlight=painting+seamless+bodies

The powder is what the body arrives already coated in. Just a very fine, transluscent layer. To colour it with oil pastels, you'd have to make sure to wash the body first to remove the powder. The surface will then feel somewhat sticky/tacky. After you colour it (following the various instructions in the thread linked above), you then need to re-apply a protective powder of some sort (either corn starch or translucent makeup powder, which is what I use), which I believe just helps to protect the body (keep it from drying out?), as well as keeps the surface from being too 'sticky'.

I second what Sky wrote about the oil pastels and powders. Ephiane, who discovered (as far as we are concerned) the oil pastel coloring technique thinks that the oil pastel also might help protect the body, and she may be right. But I would still re-apply protective powder to it (you will have to remove it to repaint the body anyway -- if you will be repainting it to begin with). Otherwise, the powder definitely helps keep the body non-tacky, which is both for the sake of handling it (and everything it touches -- even powdered it will eventually make a spot on paper or cardboard, be warned), and for the sake of keeping the soft material in good shape. You might need to wash the body with soap and water on some occasion whether or not you are painting it, and it should be re-powdered. Again, several things work about as well -- corn starch, baby powder, cosmetic silicon powder.

Various items and resources relating to these are covered or linked in the TBLeague catalog topic (including maintenance, cleaning, painting, clothing), here:
https://onesixthfigures.forumotion.com/t3013-tbleague-phicen-seamless-bodies-with-steel-skeleton-catalog-updated-continually

Theboo-bomb wrote:It's fantastic to see how it shaped up. That mail purse seems like a godsent. Can't wait to see the finished ork guy!

Cheers TBB! I'm liking the look of the mail myself and think it was worth the trouble to get hold of and work with, also a refreshing challenge for me,

skywalkersaga wrote:If you are planning to colour the Tbleague body in any way, one of the better things to use is oil pastel. There's a whole thread on it here: https://onesixthfigures.forumotion.com/t260-painting-seamless-bodies-nsfw?highlight=painting+seamless+bodies

The powder is what the body arrives already coated in. Just a very fine, transluscent layer. To colour it with oil pastels, you'd have to make sure to wash the body first to remove the powder. The surface will then feel somewhat sticky/tacky. After you colour it (following the various instructions in the thread linked above), you then need to re-apply a protective powder of some sort (either corn starch or translucent makeup powder, which is what I use), which I believe just helps to protect the body (keep it from drying out?), as well as keeps the surface from being too 'sticky'.

GubernatorFan wrote:I second what Sky wrote about the oil pastels and powders. Ephiane, who discovered (as far as we are concerned) the oil pastel coloring technique thinks that the oil pastel also might help protect the body, and she may be right. But I would still re-apply protective powder to it (you will have to remove it to repaint the body anyway -- if you will be repainting it to begin with). Otherwise, the powder definitely helps keep the body non-tacky, which is both for the sake of handling it (and everything it touches -- even powdered it will eventually make a spot on paper or cardboard, be warned), and for the sake of keeping the soft material in good shape. You might need to wash the body with soap and water on some occasion whether or not you are painting it, and it should be re-powdered. Again, several things work about as well -- corn starch, baby powder, cosmetic silicon powder.

Various items and resources relating to these are covered or linked in the TBLeague catalog topic (including maintenance, cleaning, painting, clothing), here:
https://onesixthfigures.forumotion.com/t3013-tbleague-phicen-seamless-bodies-with-steel-skeleton-catalog-updated-continually

Thanks guys! Not sure I'm sold on the preservation qualities of powder but definitely agree it will solve a tackiness issues. I'm not sure which route I'll take, pastels and powder or gundam markers and silicone oil, depends on what works best for me and gives it the finish I want as a Beserker will be a sweaty dude! Good idea about washing the body first, I am supposed to do that with all my Gundam builds to remove any mould release but rarely paint them..so don't bother.
Last time you'll see the armour in the 'white' as gunsmiths say, I made his bicep armour, some more crotch armour and his pauldrons out of an old Marx Knight helmet then had to carefully shape the fins so they won't collide with his helmet, more studds added and literally had just enough left!!

















JUST REALISED THAT THE PLACEMENT OF THE STUDS MAKE NO MECHANICAL SENSE! THEY NEED TO BE MOVED UP ONE SECTION TO BE HINGES...AH SCREW IT CAN'T BE ARSED...

shovelchop81 wrote:Last time you'll see the armour in the 'white' as gunsmiths say, I made his bicep armour, some more crotch armour and his pauldrons out of an old Marx Knight helmet  

Armourers use the word too. In the 14th century, when they stopped covering metal armour with cloth and the surcoat/jupon was phased out, they started to wear naked, polished plates. It was called "white" or "allwhite" armour.

Keep going. The finish is in sight now. That misplaced riveting would annoy the crap out of me. How much will it bother you later on if you left them?

shazzdan wrote:

shovelchop81 wrote:Last time you'll see the armour in the 'white' as gunsmiths say, I made his bicep armour, some more crotch armour and his pauldrons out of an old Marx Knight helmet  

Armourers use the word too. In the 14th century, when they stopped covering metal armour with cloth and the surcoat/jupon was phased out, they started to wear naked, polished plates. It was called "white" or "allwhite" armour.

Keep going. The finish is in sight now. That misplaced riveting would annoy the crap out of me. How much will it bother you later on if you left them?

Interesting, makes sense. Gunsmiths use it to describe unprotected metal before it is Blued, plated or seracoated which is the more modern coating of choice for military and hunting guns.