NEW PRODUCT: TBleague s42-s43

csyeung wrote:

I've only seen this used for statues, to fix and resculpt parts, so I'm interested as well if this would work.

Yeah, as advertised it is supposed to retain some permanent flexibility (like when it is used on headphone cables etc), and it is silicone based itself, so "theoretically" it should be even way better on a silicone body than on a resin statue. But the proof is in the pudding. Sorry I've been too busy (by which I mean, lazy) to experiment with it myself.

Phicen bodies aren't actually made of silicone however, they're technically made of TPE, so I'm not sure how strong the bond would ultimately be.

gooboo wrote:Phicen bodies aren't actually made of silicone however, they're technically made of TPE, so I'm not sure how strong the bond would ultimately be.

That's a good point, but Sugru isn't specifically made for Silicone, nor marketed that way, though it claims itself to be "Advanced Silicone Technology".  Those statues csyeung refers to aren't silicone either. Sugru claims that it "holds up to 4.4 lb (2 kg) on Glass, Ceramics, Wood, Metal, Plaster, most Plastics and Fabrics (and more), indoors and outdoors ."  But, don't believe everything you read.

No, Jiaou bodies are TPE, Phicen/TBLeague bodies are medical-grade silicon of some type. That said, silicone glue can be peeled off them, so silicone working on silicone is not necessarily going to be a permanent solution. I have used Sugru before, just not for this. Keeping the packets in the fridge supposedly extends their life.

GubernatorFan wrote:No, Jiaou bodies are TPE, Phicen/TBLeague bodies are medical-grade silicon of some type. That said, silicone glue can be peeled off them, so silicone working on silicone is not necessarily going to be a permanent solution. I have used Sugru before, just not for this. Keeping the packets in the fridge supposedly extends their life.

Well, not only is that a good functional suggestion, but if I'd put mine in the fridge, I'd know where they are now

Again it sounds like Sugru doesn't particularly care if the attached material is silicone or not, so long as it's under 4.4 lbs of most things. Will be curious about anyone's experience. Then again, I wouldn't totally put it past TBL to eventually make a figure where the breasts are more than 4.4 lbs...

In regards to the silicone/tpe question, this was something someone posted in a facebook group after asking someone at Phicen what materials their figures are made out of-

"Hi Harvey,
Sorry for replying late, busy with other things that I need to finish today, also honestly it's a tricky question.
It's TPE which is environmental and non-toxic, not silicon, but I found our early product introduction says silicon,
I believe that's some mistake we didn't mean to make, but it's a mistake that would and should be taken seriously.
------------------
Best regards
Jenny
PHICEN LIMITED"

Assuming that person didn't make this entire thing up, it sounds like Phicens aren't made with silicone either. At the very least I can say that silicone caulk wasn't permanent when I tried it on one of my figures, although it did a pretty good job sticking to it nonetheless. Just not permanently.

Hmmm... interesting. At least they owned up to contradicting themselves. But it is also not the same exact material (and surface) as the Jiaou Dolls, which are said to be TPE. Of course, there may be different kinds of TPE at play here.

I've never bought a jiaou doll before. Are they more fragile?

Supposedly they rip and tear more easily. I've never had a Jiaou doll myself, but that's what I've read from others online.

csyeung wrote:I've never bought a jiaou doll before. Are they more fragile?

Somewhere I did a couple of comparison reviews (but of their older models), maybe on the old site. I will try to dig them up. In short:
Jiaou dolls are perhaps easier to stain, easier to scratch the surface (for example when painting with oil pastel), harder to pose (because they do not have a continuous metal skeleton, just metal joints, apparently), and can achieve slightly less articulation. The seamless-footed female figures have a hideous bulge at the ankle when you extend the foot down. The female figures come with painted finger- and toe-nails. The male figures come with an ampler and larger assortment of attachable "secret parts," not counting a tiny one that is part of the body's mold. The figures come heavily scented (perhaps it is in the protective powder), something TBLeague seems to have copied with a different scent at some point, but maybe gave up on. An advantage of the Jiaou Doll figures is that they come in several different skin tons, especially for the females (the males just three: pale/normal, wheat/medium tan, black/darker tan).

Here is a comparison photo I did of some Jiaou male and female bodies some time ago (since then they have produced newer models - one or two for female figures, not counting older ones with seamless feet, and two more for the males).

Thanks for the detailed information Gubernator!

GubernatorFan wrote:Hmmm... interesting. At least they owned up to contradicting themselves. But it is also not the same exact material (and surface) as the Jiaou Dolls, which are said to be TPE. Of course, there may be different kinds of TPE at play here.

Anyone willing to do a flame test on their Phicen/TBL body (wasn't there a flayed one posted here)? Silicone shouldn't burn. You'd get maybe some ash.

Warning though, TPE will catch fire.

rui wrote:Warning though, TPE will catch fire.

LOL Makes me wish I hadn't gotten rid of the flayed experimental M31 -- I've kept the skeleton but got rid of the flayed flesh.

The Jaiou female bodies are of generally inferior quality to TBL (even allowing for TBL's more recent manufacturing mis-steps) and their visual design hasn't really altered drastically since they entered the market (aside from their cartoonishly overdeveloped 'Euro' body). There certainly isn't anything approaching the same range of body types as TBL offer. They tend to deteriorate much more rapidly than TBL bodies too, even if maintained in exactly the same way. The skeleton cannot always hold poses as well as a TBL body, the limbs will slowly drop down if raised for example and this occurs more frequently as the body gets older and/or is posed/manipulated more often.

I don't know enough about the composition of the skin, but it certainly isn't the same material as TBL's bodies - it's more prone to tearing and permanent staining than whatever material TBL uses (certain staining has been shown to fade or become absorbed over time in TBL 'skin', while Jaiou bodies seem to remain permanently marked). They're also very difficult to keep clean, and the skin is prone to 'peeling' in very thin layers (like badly sunburnt skin does) which can make a figure look ugly very quickly where there is exposed skin.

They're an interesting but lesser alternative to TBL's models, which is why I imagine they are relatively cheaper. To be honest though about the only thing they have going for them is their wide range of skin tones, but compared to TBL's paltry binary choice, that's actually a big advantage. They're good to have at least one or two of to have as a counterpart to TBL's range or for head sculpts that won't match a TBL.

On the other hand their three male figure types seem to be a little more durable even though their build quality and materials seem to be the same. With one exception they're also a little less 'on steroids' than their TBL male counterparts, which is useful for less muscular figures. They're also significantly less expensive than their TBL counterparts.

Frankly, though, unless and until they make some major design advances in the female bodies I'm probably done buying those models. The new 'slim' body looks like a step in that direction but with TBL churning out bodytypes at the rate they currently are I'm in no hurry to buy one.

GubernatorFan wrote:

GeeWillikers wrote:I just can't get over how odd the S18 (basically their oldest 'modern' steel model given a tweak) now looks when directly compared to the 42, like an alien Grey reflected in a funhouse mirror. I've never been crazy about that short neck, off-kilter navel and too-prominent groin area, but it's sobering to now realise just how distorted that torso actually is after all these years. The derriere is just about it's best feature. That design needs a total overhaul once TBL are done with their busty/curvy obsession (which may well be never).

Interesting, there seems to be a bit of a pattern -- or at the very least they have done this elsewhere, too. I'm thinking about their M31 body, which is in many ways a darker-skinned version of M30, slightly un-muscled but basically stretched out to make it taller and slimmer. The result is neither attractive nor realistic (which is what they claimed they were going for), although, in a strange parallel to what you just described, its "derriere is just about its best feature." Of course there are other reasons to dislike M31 (others have said I loathe it with a passion which is a slight exaggeration), like the spaghetti elbow (at least one of them), the anatomical incompleteness, and above everything else the faulty (especially left) wrist peg clamp (at least in my experience, this may have been corrected in later batches). Its one and only redeeming feature in my book is that it is their easiest male body to clothe (and as I was just clothing it the other day, the damned wrist peg came out with a hand and was a hellish pain to reattach).

Here was my review: http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW-062916b.htm

Oh definitely - I have one M31, and I certainly won't be getting any more in a hurry. I've never been troubled with the wrist issue you mention (at least not on that particular model), but yes that body is so ugly it's stayed clothed since Day Two. My biggest gripe is the bizarre chest sculpting and the weird arm-to-shoulder design (see the figure on the right in my avatar - just look at that crazy armpit). In fact that figure in my avatar is now swathed in a long t-shirt/jacket combo to hide that feature entirely. It's a shame about that poor design, as otherwise my particular one is a well-made figure.

I guess that M31 and the S01/02 (18/19) were early clumsy attempts at a more lean and elongated 'western/caucasian' body type designed by someone much more familiar with shorter Asian physiognomy, who wrongly assumed that all that was required was to elongate the torso. It's irritating because there are some nice features to both bodies and it's easy for us westerners to see where the improvements should be made (in the female's case, shorter torso or higher less 'thrusting' groin and longer legs, lower shoulders, slightly longer thinner neck, slightly shorter upper arms and wrists etc).

As for the figure in my avatar, as he's now kept fully-clothed I also bulked out his stomach with cotton wool and duct tape to make my own 'Fat Tony' type figure (The Worldbox Fat Man figure is great but I wanted 'chunky' rather than 'fat'). So long as those skinny arms are mostly covered, he looks fine.

GeeWillikers wrote:Oh definitely - I have one M31, and I certainly won't be getting any more in a hurry. I've never been troubled with the wrist issue you mention (at least not on that particular model), but yes that body is so ugly it's stayed clothed since Day Two. My biggest gripe is the bizarre chest sculpting and the weird arm-to-shoulder design (see the figure on the right in my avatar - just look at that crazy armpit). In fact that figure in my avatar is now swathed in a long t-shirt/jacket combo to hide that feature entirely. It's a shame about that poor design, as otherwise my particular one is a well-made figure.

I guess that M31 and the S01/02 (18/19) were early clumsy attempts at a more lean and elongated 'western/caucasian' body type designed by someone much more familiar with shorter Asian physiognomy, who wrongly assumed that all that was required was to elongate the torso. It's irritating because there are some nice features to both bodies and it's easy for us westerners to see where the improvements should be made (in the female's case, shorter torso or higher less 'thrusting' groin and longer legs, lower shoulders, slightly longer thinner neck, slightly shorter upper arms and wrists etc).

As for the figure in my avatar, as he's now kept fully-clothed I also bulked out his stomach with cotton wool and duct tape to make my own 'Fat Tony' type figure (The Worldbox Fat Man figure is great but I wanted 'chunky' rather than 'fat'). So long as those skinny arms are mostly covered, he looks fine.

I agree, although I don't know to what extent familiarity with common average racial physique played a role -- there was, after all, a long history of (jointed) bodies before this, and they made a specifically Asian-type body after this (M32), although its height makes it atypical. You hit the nail on the head: the vertically-elongated pecs and the placement of the nipples are particularly unrealistic. There are problems indeed with the armpit and elbow areas. I got several of the bodies when they first came out, and apparently ever one of them (as I realized the other day) has the loose grip on the left wrist peg problem -- so this may be something with their first batches. It is reparable, but not fully.

Also agree on the World Box "fat" body. It is good in its own way -- and nice to have the variety -- but its use for every heavier character (including "Fat Thor") often falls short of the mark. So there is still much to be said for expedients like the one you resorted to.

Youtube video reviee. Not in English but you can see the body size incompatible with so many things.

The biggest drawback is thosse seamless feets.

Thank you, bunnyfreakz, makes sense.

Thnaks for the link bunnyfreakz. (if you turn on the cc, it's in english)

I agree the biggest downside of these figures is finding appropriate clothing for them unless you are adept at creating custom tailored clothing. Fitting on available shoes will require toe /foot surgery!

@Brassco, @Geewillikers, @Gooboo. Thanks for the pics, really helpful!

For those that have S43, is the skintone of the S43 substantially lighter than the "light suntan" of recent TBL suntans?
I saw this Youtube video review, jump to 1:27, you'll see S43 with S23B, that's a whopping difference in skintone!
I want the headless S43A but won't get it if its lighter than TBL's "light suntan".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h-O5e8X9ug

rollotomasi wrote:@Brassco, @Geewillikers, @Gooboo. Thanks for the pics, really helpful!

For those that have S43, is the skintone of the S43 substantially lighter than the "light suntan" of recent TBL suntans?
I saw this Youtube video review, jump to 1:27, you'll see S43 with S23B, that's a whopping difference in skintone!
I want the headless S43A but won't get it if its lighter than TBL's "light suntan".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h-O5e8X9ug

Well that's odd - I don't have a 43, but my 42 (pictured throughout this thread) is by sheer coincidence now wearing the exact same generic blonde Kimi head he's using (the first one, not the Seyfried-alike he has on one at the very end). My particular 42 is very slightly paler than TBL's usual 'pale' though, so maybe the 43 is also more pale than usual. Still seems a bit of an extreme difference, though.

You can never be 100% certain of anything with these bodies under differing light conditions of course, but compared to that particular 23, the body in his video looks much more like a 42 than a 43.

And let's not forget that I personally have counted at least three different variants of 'suntan' in the S23 alone (it's perhaps the least useful TBL model to use as a basis for skintone comparisons IMHO).

GeeW - I have also counted three different suntan skintone variations that have been put out by tbleague since 2019 (using my various s25b bodies as a reference). The first was the greyish suntan, followed by the reddish suntan. And then the current one, which seems to be a somewhat lighter suntan (when directly compared to the previous reddish one).

I may have solved this one already - in another video he says he received two of these from a third party seller in 'generic' boxes, no identifying accessories or labels...  I'm assuming they're the same two he uses in his other video, so I reckon he's probably been mis-sold two 42s as 43s.



Having said that though, the two Kimi heads he puts on the bodies at the end do look a little too light by comparison...

skywalkersaga wrote:GeeW - I have also counted three different suntan skintone variations that have been put out by tbleague since 2019 (using my various s25b bodies as a reference). The first was the greyish suntan, followed by the reddish suntan. And then the current one, which seems to be a somewhat lighter suntan (when directly compared to the previous reddish one).

Those are the ones. I also have what seems to be a unique very slightly yellowish/sallow shade of the 'light suntan' variant S23, that I've never seen anywhere else again (whether it was a dye-processing fluke, a light-discoloured ex-display model re-boxed as 'new' or an unused prototype that accidentally got out of the factory, I guess I'll never know). It's an odd one, the hands and feet are a near-perfect match which suggests it was intentional, and in-hand its yellowish tint is obvious, but it doesn't really show as 'yellowish' in photographs.

@rollotomasi - I got my S43 from Giantoy 2 months ago and it is the current 'light' suntan, if that helps.

Nice! Thanks to all of you for the info!
I don't think i have enough patience anymore to wait for *@#% TBL to make an S43 with detachable feet!

rollotomasi wrote:Nice! Thanks to all of you for the info!
I don't think i have enough patience anymore to wait for *@#% TBL to make an S43 with detachable feet!

I'm starting to think the same, and even when/if they do, it's still not exactly the same as the Viking Woman body, and they'll most likely tweak it in some undesirable way or other. But even so while the seamless feet on these and the S34/35 are more aesthetically pleasing, I kind of hope they aren't selling very well due to their sheer impracticality and TBL will be forced to release versions with detachable feet.

I think though, that TBL just might be deliberating over which one of the Viking Woman/Month variants to release as a base body (either, or even both, would be great for me).

I wanted her to be able to stand up on her own and did manage with the zytoys shoes, she is not complete, missing her katana. oh, and the head is YM026D.

Nicely put together, Tabul. And it's great she can stand with these shoes.