Towards a definitive Huttslayer Leia (updated with Part V)

Xavion2004 wrote:This is by far my biggest issue with 1/6 and the reason why I no longer preorder as a general rule.  Sure, final production figures sometimes fall a bit short of the promotional versions in the 1/12 world of Hasbro, SHFiguarts, Mafex, etc. but it’s not as rampant as it is in 1/6 and not by nearly as wide a margin.  I just find that so frustrating, because what those high expectations lead to is disappointment  in what is actually a pretty nice set or figure.   Somehow these companies need to bridge the gap between the best possible sculpt and portrait they can create by hand and what they can realistically reproduce in a factory.

Well, I agree with you that this is a huge problem with 1/6 scale -- or at least, with these types of third party sets and headsculpts. Not everything is this bad, of course... I think Hot Toys tends to lose far less between promo pics and final product (I vaguely recall Stryker saying it's only like 5% loss or something like that), while others tend to have a much greater disparity. I learned early on that you can't trust the promo pics, especially for headsculpts.  I think GF is right that most of the time, what lets things down is the final paintjob. I have seen firsthand some sculpts that appeared lackluster but after a professional repaint were absolutely stunning, which proves that for many , the underlying sculpt isn't the issue. My guess is that they rely on factory printing for the final products, but perhaps show a hand-painted figure for the promo.

That being said, this is something I decided to take in stride, and work around. Like you, I very rarely preorder anything these days, especially not these types of sets or headsculpts. I almost always wait for in-hand photos before deciding. I think the only 1/6 items I've actually preordered in the last few years were Hot Toys figures and Mr. Z horses.

Whether or not this issue is a dealbreaker for people probably depends on what they are doing with their 1/6 figures and collection. Other than a few select Hot Toys Star Wars figures, I don't actually collect a lot of full figures or sets, so I tend to view most 1/6 output as just potential fodder for customisation. I therefore tend to be somewhat forgiving with stuff that doesn't turn out exactly like promos, since sometimes they can still prove useful.

However, there are some situations where the difference is just too egregious, and think this Leia set is of those circumstances. The problem is that the headsculpt was the main selling point for this one, since sets like this had already existed previously, but not with a head that looked so (seemingly) good. (The only reason I'd even considered it at all myself was because I thought it would be nice to finally have a Leia head that matched the tbleague skintone.) I think it's one thing to show a slightly better-painted headsculpt in a promo, and another thing entirely to use a Hot Toys head for what basically amounts to false advertising.

skywalkersaga wrote:Well, I agree with you that this is a huge problem with 1/6 scale -- or at least, with these types of third party sets and headsculpts. Not everything is this bad, of course... I think Hot Toys tends to lose far less between promo pics and final product (I vaguely recall Stryker saying it's only like 5% loss or something like that), while others tend to have a much greater disparity. I learned early on that you can't trust the promo pics, especially for headsculpts.  I think GF is right that most of the time, what lets things down is the final paintjob. I have seen firsthand some sculpts that appeared lackluster but after a professional repaint were absolutely stunning, which proves that for many , the underlying sculpt isn't the issue. My guess is that they rely on factory printing for the final products, but perhaps show a hand-painted figure for the promo.

That being said, this is something I decided to take in stride, and work around. Like you, I very rarely preorder anything these days, especially not these types of sets or headsculpts. I almost always wait for in-hand photos before deciding. I think the only 1/6 items I've actually preordered in the last few years were Hot Toys figures and Mr. Z horses.

Whether or not this issue is a dealbreaker for people probably depends on what they are doing with their 1/6 figures and collection. Other than a few select Hot Toys Star Wars figures, I don't actually collect a lot of full figures or sets, so I tend to view most 1/6 output as just potential fodder for customisation. I therefore tend to be somewhat forgiving with stuff that doesn't turn out exactly like promos, since sometimes they can still prove useful.

However, there are some situations where the difference is just too egregious, and think this Leia set is of those circumstances. The problem is that the headsculpt was the main selling point for this one, since sets like this had already existed previously, but not with a head that looked so (seemingly) good. (The only reason I'd even considered it at all myself was because I thought it would be nice to finally have a Leia head that matched the tbleague skintone.) I think it's one thing to show a slightly better-painted headsculpt in a promo, and another thing entirely to use a Hot Toys head for what basically amounts to false advertising.

I think this is very well put, and agree wholeheartedly. I, too, knew better than to expect the final product to be exactly like the promotional image, but the disparity was just too much; and my main motivation at this point -- precisely because I had most of the other items from such sets -- was to have a Leia head that would match a TBLeague body. At any rate, this experience is a nice illustration of why I'm usually unwilling to preorder and hate that business model. But it is the reality we live in, and given scarcity of supply and height of demand, sometimes we don't want to take the chance of missing out.

Since I also buy mostly loose pieces for planned or potential customs, I also tend to be somewhat more forgiving when it comes to absolute accuracy. But like you said, this seems like essentially false advertising by the producer. In a sense, it is not. My comment about the paint job making most of the difference was echoing what I have heard from others time and again, and have been able to observe, although my own painting skills are usually too remedial to make much of an improvement, except in trying to make more stylized heads a little more realistic. In this instance, there is enough of the HT Bespin Leia head here for me to think that this is exactly what happened. The prototype was apparently a modified actual HT head sculpt, whereas the product was their recreation (recasting and repainting) of it -- falling short at the very least with the paint.

Yeah, I realise it's a recasted head, but there still seems to be some quality loss there, too. Sometimes that can happen with recasts. Such as , elongation in certain areas, for example. The recasting probably explains why it's a bit on the smaller side, as well.

I suppose the other thing I need to bear in mind is that most of what I’ve collected over the years is made by large companies like Hasbro, Mattel, McFarlane, Bandai, Medicom, etc. Even my first foray into 1/6 was heavily focused on Cy/Cool Girls which were made by Takara. Hot Toys is probably the largest 1/6 company, so it makes sense that their production figures are pretty close to the promotional pics.

Most of these 1/6 companies are probably small boutiques started by fans and collectors who don’t always have the resources to make the jump between hand made prototypes and factory production figures without losing something along the way.

skywalkersaga wrote:Yeah, I realise it's a recasted head, but there still seems to be some quality loss there, too. Sometimes that can happen with recasts. Such as , elongation in certain areas, for example.  The recasting probably explains why it's a bit on the smaller side, as well.

Agreed, recasting often results in a slightly smaller cast, and some parts can change out of exact proportion. In this instance, I was wondering if perhaps the head also came out rounder (de-elongated) than it should have been. I accidentally came across this video, which reminded me of the situation. Is this a "deepfake" situation? In most instances, image quality apart, the size of the eyes seems to be the thing that gives away the "deepfake."

Xavion2004 wrote:I suppose the other thing I need to bear in mind is that most of what I’ve collected over the years is made by large companies like Hasbro, Mattel, McFarlane, Bandai, Medicom, etc.  Even my first foray into 1/6 was heavily focused on Cy/Cool Girls which were made by Takara.   Hot Toys is probably the largest 1/6 company, so it makes sense that their production figures are pretty close to the promotional pics.

Most of these 1/6 companies are probably small boutiques started by fans and collectors who don’t always have the resources to make the jump between hand made prototypes and factory production figures without losing something along the way.

They are certainly much smaller companies than the heavyweights, which is in part why they are often redoing earlier work. That is intended as a shortcut, and one might have hoped it would have guaranteed a better result in Leia's head. Mr Toys' present Leia set builds on their previous one, and both sets borrow from others, including the HT ANH and HT Bespin Leia head sculpts. Similarly, their Barbarian Set A was a redoing of an older Kaustic Plastik set (at the same time as Kaustic Plastik itself was revisiting it) -- although, Mr Toys was the only one to bother providing a "real hair" head. That is also their best work, that I know of. Here is a link to my review on this site. On the other hand, their Barbarian Set B was a depiction of He-Man, not necessarily specifically Dolph Lundgren, and based on I don't know what earlier product, if not original. Here is the link.

I'm wondering if covid, and the worldwide supply chains disruptions also a factor to not matching promo pics. Because I usually collect 1/12 figures and nendoroids and I've been hearing about quality control dropping on a lot of parts that in the past wouldn't be so widespread. Also, since these are third party companies making these 1/6 sets wouldn't that be another reason for these issues; or was it better in the past?

Nil wrote:I'm wondering if covid, and the worldwide supply chains disruptions also a factor to not matching promo pics. Because I usually collect 1/12 figures and nendoroids and I've been hearing about quality control dropping on a lot of parts that in the past wouldn't be so widespread. Also, since these are third party companies making these 1/6 sets wouldn't that be another reason for these issues; or was it better in the past?

Covid has not helped (with prices, either), but all of these issues were going on before, too.

About the body on this set that actually works out okay is the bra CAN actually be used on a smaller bust figure. But it has to be tied behind her back in a way that tightens everything, here’s how shadow_wolf did theirs on a S17B:




And TonTon did what I did previously — I guess with a little force the bun and pony tail can be pulled off and fit perfectly into the HT Endor Leia head (s17b body):





The bait and switch on the head sculpt is the biggest letdown of this set.

Thanks for the review, Ian!
I agree that the head is a major letdown. Unfortunately, I failed to get a Hot Toys Leia-head from the Bespin-/Endor-kits when the were available, so I'm stuck with the head that came with my set. The HT-recasts on Ebay are also no alternative. Possibly, I will just use this set for bashing ... the outfit might actually be a good starting point for a Dejah Thoris figure...

Thanks for the additional pics, GF.
The pics with S25B do look nice but i kind of prefer the S12D.
Maybe because I have my ACPlay set on an S12D also, the original suntan one with the faulty left wrist joint.

Thanks for the pics, Stryker. The S17B looks like the best body to use.
I think it's going to be hard for me to find an HT Endor Leia head and at a price I'm willing to pay for.
I have my eye on the TTToys Bespin Leia 3rd party head, will check out if there are any in-hand pics.

As an aside, I was just watching my daily fix of UFC/MMA Youtube videos, suddenly I just thought about how Leia offed Jabba,
it was a rear "naked" choke.

Stryker2011 wrote:About the body on this set that actually works out okay is the bra CAN actually be used on a smaller bust figure. But it has to be tied behind her back in a way that tightens everything, here’s how shadow_wolf did theirs on a S17B:

And TonTon did what I did previously — I guess with a little force the bun and pony tail can be pulled off and fit perfectly into the HT Endor Leia head (s17b body):

The bait and switch on the head sculpt is the biggest letdown of this set.

Looks like shadow_wolf did the same thing I did with respect to the top, except rather better than me. Also looks like I will just have to try to replicate your head experiment (the whole point of getting this set was, I hoped, to avoid having to do that). But can I bring myself to remove the "sideburns"?

Randam Hajile wrote:Thanks for the review, Ian!
I agree that the head is a major letdown. Unfortunately, I failed to get a Hot Toys Leia-head from the Bespin-/Endor-kits when the were available, so I'm stuck with the head that came with my set. The HT-recasts on Ebay are also no alternative. Possibly, I will just use this set for bashing ... the outfit might actually be a good starting point for a Dejah Thoris figure...

Thank you, and you are very welcome, Ralf. I am kicking myself for not getting an extra Endor Leia head, too. When I got the one I have, I figured I'd use it for this, but then I put together the whole Endor outfit, so not looking to modify it permanently. Yes, the outfit would work great for Dejah -- don't get Mark started!

rollotomasi wrote:Thanks for the additional pics, GF.
The pics with S25B do look nice but i kind of prefer the S12D.
Maybe because I have my ACPlay set on an S12D also, the original suntan one with the faulty left wrist joint.

Thanks for the pics, Stryker. The S17B looks like the best body to use.
I think it's going to be hard for me to find an HT Endor Leia head and at a price I'm willing to pay for.
I have my eye on the TTToys Bespin Leia 3rd party head, will check out if there are any in-hand pics.

As an aside, I was just watching my daily fix of UFC/MMA Youtube videos, suddenly I just thought about how Leia offed Jabba,
it was a rear "naked" choke.

You are very welcome, thanks for the kind words, Rollo. I couldn't stop thinking about that faulty left wrist joint the whole time, every time I wished I had swapped hands. You got me, I'll check out the TTToys Bespin head.

Part III: Another Head: HT modified


(for Part IV, with the TT head modified, see here)

(for Part V, Towards a definitive Huttslayer Leia (?), see here)

The last exchanges nudged me to try exactly what I was hoping to avoid by getting this set -- modifying an actual HT head sculpt, however little. I took my HT Endor Leia head, removed its (removable) hairpiece, then pried off (not exactly easily) the bun-with-braid off the Mr Toys second Leia, to insert it into the opening on the HT head sculpt. As already expected, this was easy enough to do in the end.

First, here are some side-by-side photos of the Mr Toys and HT head sculpts, without any of the detachable (or detached) additional head pieces. I could not quite get them to sit the same way and at the same height on the makeshift display necks (male inside neck connectors), but I think one gets the general idea. This (second) Mr Toys Leia head appears to be a recast of the HT Endor Leia head. The Mr Toys head looks a little smaller because the head is somehow rounder, but in fact it appears that they tried to counteract the usual shrinking effect, and it is not really smaller than the HT head. This would make sense, especially as Mr Toys intended their set to go on the taller TBLeague S25B body. Some of the features are, unsurprisingly, less sharp in the recast, the ears appear to be bigger, the added on "sideburns" have a different (and inferior) shape and placement compared to the original. The paint application is also less nuanced and less effective in attaining realism and conveying the actress' likeness, something more apparent when comparing the heads side by side. None of this is surprising.



Here is the HT Endor Leia head with the bun-and-braid, on the S25B body equipped with the set. Note that the Mr Toys version of the head was much more compatible with the skin tone (the light makes a difference), and it appears that the Mr Toys head was given a narrower neck opening, providing a nicer fit at that juncture. The appearance and likeness of the HT head, however, is much better. That said, this simple mod does not result in a completely accurate representation of Leia in her Hutt-slayer outfit. The hair above the forehead is too tightly pulled back, and should have a little more volume. The "sideburns" should not be there (an easier modification for the HT head, should one wish to attempt it).







(for Part IV, with the TT head modified, see here)


(for Part V, Towards a definitive Huttslayer Leia (?), see here)

As always, what do you think?

Yeah, I can see why everyone hated the sculpt now. I didn't mind it when I got my kit since the 1.0 version looked nothing like Leia and HT are really expensive. But seeing the comparison between both yikes, with the skin tones couldn't modifying the body to match with makeup to achieve the same skin tone elevate the set to closest you can get? Also, kinda like the S17 body since the garb isn't hitting the ground and looks more proportional. Was tempted to get both S17 and S25 now I can just get one body.

Yeah, I think you could use the makeup technique to warm up the tbleague body tone a bit to match the HT sculpt -- that's what I would do.

And I agree that of the bodies shown so far, the s17b seems to work the best in terms of suiting the character while still fitting into the outfit. I think the height of the s17b isn't an issue if you are just displaying the figure on its own.

ETA: Meant to thank GF for showing the HT sculpt as well. Of course, it looks great and you did a good job transferring the back hairpiece.

I think if you really wanted to get that 'volume' with the hairstyle, the best solution would be to give her real hair. But that's quite an undertaking and a bit risky with the HT sculpt, since you only have one. I guess you could experiment on the Mr. Toys sculpt if you were feeling adventurous. ;D

Why if you have her next to other star wars characters would she be a bit tall or same height with the S17, and that why S25 its a shorter body? Cause my only issue with S25 is the bottom garb would need editing and I don't know the heads look bit weird proportionally for the body.

Yeah, the s17b is a bit on the taller side, so technically too tall for Leia/Carrie Fisher if standing next to other SW figures. But a lot of people seem to be using this figure for a Jabba display, where she's either sitting/reclining or standing alone somewhere isolated from other figures, so it doesn't seem to be a major issue.

That's indeed why GubernatorFan was trying the s25b with the heads, since it's one of the shorter and more petite tbleague bodies. However, it's proportions are such that certain 1/6 female heads are too big for it. I think the Mr. Toys head from this set works ok on it, but the others are indeed a little too large for it.

For long time I've been wishing there were a wider variety of tbleague bodies that suited shorter characters. I do a lot of custom Padme figures and it's been very frustrating not having the 'right' seamless body for her. At the moment, I make do with either the s25b or one of the PopToys Xing bodies.

What I guess he did with the 17b is cut off part of the lower leg and reattached the ankle ball joint to make the body shorter.

Wouldn't that include cutting some of the silicon skin and metal skeleton?

Yeah, it would require tools able to cut through the metal. Some users here (Ephiane, gooboo, maybe others?) have done it before in order to alter height or change the seamless foot bodies into regular bodies.

Nil wrote:Yeah, I can see why everyone hated the sculpt now. I didn't mind it when I got my kit since the 1.0 version looked nothing like Leia and HT are really expensive. But seeing the comparison between both yikes, with the skin tones couldn't modifying the body to match with makeup to achieve the same skin tone elevate the set to closest you can get? Also, kinda like the S17 body since the garb isn't hitting the ground and looks more proportional. Was tempted to get both S17 and S25 now I can just get one body.

Garb hitting the ground shouldn't be a problem, as the wires inside it allow you to pose it waving in the wind.

skywalkersaga wrote:Yeah, I think you could use the makeup technique to warm up the tbleague body tone a bit to match the HT sculpt -- that's what I would do.

And I agree that of the bodies shown so far, the s17b seems to work the best in terms of suiting the character while still fitting into the outfit. I think the height of the s17b isn't an issue if you are just displaying the figure on its own.

ETA: Meant to thank GF for showing the HT sculpt as well. Of course, it looks great and you did a good job transferring the back hairpiece.

I think if you really wanted to get that 'volume' with the hairstyle, the best solution would be to give her real hair. But that's quite an undertaking and a bit risky with the HT sculpt, since you only have one. I guess you could experiment on the Mr. Toys sculpt if you were feeling adventurous. ;D

You're very welcome. Since nothing visible got ruined, I'm glad I finally took the plunge, and thank Mark for the encouragement. You may be right. Perhaps a layer or real hair just over that part, if it doesn't look too odd? If only I could be sure some painting could get the Mr Toys head sculpt to look right...

Nil wrote:Why if you have her next to other star wars characters would she be a bit tall or same height with the S17, and that why S25 its a shorter body? Cause my only issue with S25 is the bottom garb would need editing and I don't know the heads look bit weird proportionally for the body.

See above on the "bottom garb." The head can be adjusted a little bit as to the height it sits at (in the last series of photos I had it too low until I remembered to raise it for the last one), though not as to size.

skywalkersaga wrote:Yeah, the s17b is a bit on the taller side, so technically too tall for Leia/Carrie Fisher if standing next to other SW figures. But a lot of people seem to be using this figure for a Jabba display, where she's either sitting/reclining or standing alone somewhere isolated from other figures, so it doesn't seem to be a major issue.

That's indeed why GubernatorFan was trying the s25b with the heads, since it's one of the shorter and more petite tbleague bodies. However, it's proportions are such that certain 1/6 female heads are too big for it. I think the Mr. Toys head from this set works ok on it, but the others are indeed a little too large for it.

For long time I've been wishing there were a wider variety of tbleague bodies that suited shorter characters. I do a lot of custom Padme figures and it's been very frustrating not having the 'right' seamless body for her. At the moment, I make do with either the s25b or one of the PopToys Xing bodies.

A Leia reclining on a pillow next to Jabba would probably be ok using just about any seamless body that the clothing can fit on; a Leia taking a swing off Jabba's barge in Luke's arms, on the other hands, would look odd if she is taller or almost as tall as Luke.

Stryker2011 wrote:What I guess he did with the 17b is cut off part of the lower leg and reattached the ankle ball joint to make the body shorter.

Right, wow, I've seen people do it, but that is beyond what I'm willing to try. Technically that means it is no longer really the S17B body as such.

Nil wrote:Wouldn't that include cutting some of the silicon skin and metal skeleton?

skywalkersaga wrote:Yeah, it would require tools able to cut through the metal. Some users here (Ephiane, gooboo, maybe others?) have done it before in order to alter height or change the seamless foot bodies into regular bodies.

I think you're right, Ephiane and gooboo have done it, and ThePhotogsBlog (in his case changing the seamless feet to regular functional feet).

Nil wrote:Wouldn't that include cutting some of the silicon skin and metal skeleton?

No. He just rolled the skin up carefully and hacked a section of the lower leg off, then rolled it back down, then used a bit of slightly wider radius tube to “reattach” the ball joint— but overall, it really wouldn’t matter too much since most of the lower leg is inside the boots.

Interesting approach. So I imagine the shortened lower leg skeleton resulted in some folds on the TPE sleeve, but it is not visible due to the boots.

That's odd, why not cut off the actual 'flesh' part too? Maybe I'm not quite understanding properly....

skywalkersaga wrote:That's odd, why not cut off the actual 'flesh' part too? Maybe I'm not quite understanding properly....

When I first read about it, I thought it might have shrunk back, making this unnecessary. Then I remembered there is no reason to think it would do so (it is not stretched down by anything on the lower leg skeleton). Perhaps it is merely a concern of not causing damage that might spread to the rest of the body, so minimizing potential risk. In fact, the TBLeague TPE is remarkably resilient (it might occasionally puncture or split here and there, but it is not likely to open up into a large and growing gash, and it is even difficult to cut open on purpose).

GubernatorFan wrote:

skywalkersaga wrote:That's odd, why not cut off the actual 'flesh' part too? Maybe I'm not quite understanding properly....

When I first read about it, I thought it might have shrunk back, making this unnecessary. Then I remembered there is no reason to think it would do so (it is not stretched down by anything on the lower leg skeleton). Perhaps it is merely a concern of not causing damage that might spread to the rest of the body, so minimizing potential risk. In fact, the TBLeague TPE is remarkably resilient (it might occasionally puncture or split here and there, but it is not likely to open up into a large and growing gash, and it is even difficult to cut open on purpose).

I've done 'bust reductions' on some figures and the cuts I've made definitely don't spread or tear any further without actively pulling on it.

Just wondering would the S17B be taller/same size as the 1/6 sideshow General Grievous?

I presume the General Grievous is taller than an average 1/6 scale male figure, and therefore would certainly be taller than the s17b.

Here's one of GubernatorFan's pics that show its measurements:

Sky, while I did put in the two rulers, they are leaning on the background just behind the figure, and it is better to use the actual measurements indicated in the Catalog thread above (or under) the photo.

Correction -- in this instance I did not provide the measurements, but more detailed measurements were added by MeMyself&I in a follow-up post:

https://onesixthfigures.forumotion.com/t3013-tbleague-phicen-seamless-bodies-with-steel-skeleton-catalog-updated-continually#42206

I have that Grevious, and he’s well above the average figure height. I still haven’t messed with it much, since it’s scary fragile.